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 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 409 Sara
PostPosted: Sat February 1st, 2014, 21:37 GMT 

Joined: Tue November 13th, 2012, 17:27 GMT
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Location: Passing through
raging_glory wrote:
The scoundrel!

That's about as cynical as you can get.


So the 'cook and grow' lyrics can be taken at face value, but these particular words are some kind of sinister ploy?


No. It's all just songs and not to be taken at face value. But Sara is certainly a song of a man trying to get back a wife who had enough. I don't know if he meant it cynically. I suppose he meant it practically.


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 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 409 Sara
PostPosted: Sat February 1st, 2014, 22:57 GMT 
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As an indication of how hard it is to read Dylan's intentions through his songs : at the same session, with his wife in attendance, at which he played Sara, he also played Abandoned Love.


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 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 409 Sara
PostPosted: Sat February 1st, 2014, 23:18 GMT 
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Mutabor wrote:

that's what I hear too. And I don't even think there's anything wrong with describing it and with the whole lyrics. Except! When the notoriously private artist who freaks out when anybody dares ask anything personal all of a sudden comes up with the very personal. It smells very "come on now Sara, look how I stand by you in all public and am so moved by my own sentiments for you - don't make a fuss and go back to cooking and sewing, make some flowers grow instead counting my mistresses". :roll:


She was probably standing in the control room, calculator in one hand, and the other holding her attorney's phone #, while he spewed out this manipulative expulcation. Such is the fate of relationships formed by the mad careening about their fallen castles.


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 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 409 Sara
PostPosted: Tue February 4th, 2014, 20:46 GMT 

Joined: Sat November 2nd, 2013, 09:17 GMT
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I agree with whoever said the lyrics were poor. They really are poor. Sixth form poetry. Over-wrought, hammy, clumsy, over the top. There is none of Bob's flair for visual imagery and sly self-deprecating humour. The song leaves me cold. He did sadness way better on Blood On The Tracks. If You See Her Say Hello, I assume written for the same person, is far more effective at reproducing a sense of wistful regret and remorse for a relationship gone sour.

File with Joey as an unsuccessful song from Desire. Wonder how Abandoned Love was not included in the final cut. Wonder what drugs Bob was on when he made that decision!


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 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 409 Sara
PostPosted: Tue September 30th, 2014, 00:03 GMT 
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This place is deserted except for some kelp and a piece of an old ship that lies on the shore.


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 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 409 Sara
PostPosted: Sat March 5th, 2016, 18:57 GMT 
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I always cringe when he sings "Sweet viring angel/Sweet love of my life".
It's the only place where Dylan displays naked and unadultered patriarchical sexism. Of course the perfect women has to be virginal and pure. Untempered by lust or desire. A pure sexualised girl child there for the mans sexual pleasure....


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 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 409 Sara
PostPosted: Sat March 5th, 2016, 19:29 GMT 
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^ Not to mention kinda corny - something no one really mentions. Bob can be a real cornball sometimes, and not in the deliberate Peggy Day kind of way.


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 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 409 Sara
PostPosted: Sun March 6th, 2016, 01:36 GMT 

Joined: Mon December 28th, 2015, 19:52 GMT
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Location: Swansea, Wales, UK
It's a good melody, and nice harmonica playing.
Lyrically it's certainly very different. Reminds me more of Planet Waves than Blood on the Tracks.
The line I can't take seriously is 'the beach is deserted except for some kelp'.
it just seems like it's there just to rhyme with help, and hearing it always takes me out of the song.
It's basically woman as a pure and perfect saviour, which is kind of unrealistic.
I wonder how she felt about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 409 Sara
PostPosted: Sun March 6th, 2016, 07:55 GMT 
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openthedoorhomer wrote:
It's a good melody, and nice harmonica playing.
Lyrically it's certainly very different. Reminds me more of Planet Waves than Blood on the Tracks.
The line I can't take seriously is 'the beach is deserted except for some kelp'.
it just seems like it's there just to rhyme with help, and hearing it always takes me out of the song.
It's basically woman as a pure and perfect saviour, which is kind of unrealistic.
I wonder how she felt about it.


The line "the beach is deserted except for some kelp" doesn't really work either. Does it? "The street was deserted except for some McDonalds wrappers".
"The room was deserted except for some chairs"... Yeah, that's still deserted.

I hope Sara cringed a bit too. "Oh Bob..." I can imagine Baez making some remarks about the song (did she sing along on the live versions?)

Don't get me wrong. The entire jewish and arabic tones of the refrain sort of redeems it all, but it still pretty offensive.

"So easy to look at" - she's easy on the eyes...
"So hard to define" - but flaky and whimsical like a child. Not like a man, strong and sensible

Another redemption is one of the last lines "don't ever leave me/don't ever go" which reminds me of that sublime last line of Bukowski's "The Shower"

"Linda, you brought it to me
When you take it away
Do it slowly
Make it as if I was dying in my sleep
Instead of in my life,
Amen."


Completely off topic:
When he says "I'd just taken the cure" do we know what cure that was? Apomorphine?


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 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 409 Sara
PostPosted: Sun March 6th, 2016, 18:42 GMT 

Joined: Mon December 28th, 2015, 19:52 GMT
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Location: Swansea, Wales, UK
Anr Bjotk wrote:
openthedoorhomer wrote:
It's a good melody, and nice harmonica playing.
Lyrically it's certainly very different. Reminds me more of Planet Waves than Blood on the Tracks.
The line I can't take seriously is 'the beach is deserted except for some kelp'.
it just seems like it's there just to rhyme with help, and hearing it always takes me out of the song.
It's basically woman as a pure and perfect saviour, which is kind of unrealistic.
I wonder how she felt about it.


The line "the beach is deserted except for some kelp" doesn't really work either. Does it? "The street was deserted except for some McDonalds wrappers".
"The room was deserted except for some chairs"... Yeah, that's still deserted.

I hope Sara cringed a bit too. "Oh Bob..." I can imagine Baez making some remarks about the song (did she sing along on the live versions?)

Don't get me wrong. The entire jewish and arabic tones of the refrain sort of redeems it all, but it still pretty offensive.

"So easy to look at" - she's easy on the eyes...
"So hard to define" - but flaky and whimsical like a child. Not like a man, strong and sensible

Another redemption is one of the last lines "don't ever leave me/don't ever go" which reminds me of that sublime last line of Bukowski's "The Shower"

"Linda, you brought it to me
When you take it away
Do it slowly
Make it as if I was dying in my sleep
Instead of in my life,
Amen."


Completely off topic:
When he says "I'd just taken the cure" do we know what cure that was? Apomorphine?


It really is a terrible line - can't think of a worse one in his catalogue off the top of my head.


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 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 409 Sara
PostPosted: Sun March 6th, 2016, 19:08 GMT 
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Hmm, I really like this one. Usually one of the 4 songs off Desire that is in my regular rotation.


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 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 409 Sara
PostPosted: Sat September 30th, 2017, 09:25 GMT 
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Always wondered if Bob went around the house calling for Say-rah? No one dared to the tell his Bobness that it's pronounced Sara.


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 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 409 Sara
PostPosted: Sat September 30th, 2017, 10:17 GMT 
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:) now, that's a vivid picture


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 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 409 Sara
PostPosted: Sat September 30th, 2017, 23:14 GMT 
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Mutabor wrote:
Soylent Green Preservation Society wrote:
"Sara" is a most Dylanesque song, I think. I can't decide which way to go with it - is it a slightly embarrassing and thus disarmingly honest song, or some kind of joke? It's like, the lyrics are so ridiculous, the lines like -

"sweet virgin angel, sweet love of my life" &

"glamorous nymph with an arrow and bow"

- jeez, writing something like this for/about your wife. Not to mention recording it. Performing it in public! Oh, god. It's got to be in jest or some clever wordplay... And yet. Heavy with personal context, the naff metaphors and similes pile up on each other, like he's desperately grasping at any words to reach her, and the vocal delivery is absolutely dead-serious and heart-wrenching. He sounds honest and vulnerable. I don't really want to doubt his intentions. It's awkward listening to this song. It almost hurts. It's one of his best in my opinion, but I also don't listen to it that often because it usually makes me cringe and cry simultaneously.


I agree it is akward, and on the live performances 75 it went:

"Sleeping in the woods by a fire in the night
where you fought for my soul and went up against the odds
I was too young to know you were doing it right
and you did it with the strength that belonged to the gods."

(which is no less soppy)

"Sara" is the "Ballad in Plain D" of the seventies... Or maybe the "Boots of Spanish Leather", of which Suze Rotolo commented that it annoyed her that he was using their personal experiences for a public song and sung it up and down the Village, where then people got angry with her because she was so ugly to poor Bobby and left him all alone going off to Italy.

It was still my favorite song on Desire though.

Mutabor, Thanks for including the alternate stanza. I see it as the most revealing.

What strikes me strongly about the song 'Sara' is that it wasn't a song about infatuation or lust. Sara Dylan had borne Bob 4 children by then. Anyone's who's been in that situation could see it in a different light, much more so than a schmaltzy 'love song.'


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 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 409 Sara
PostPosted: Sun October 1st, 2017, 09:12 GMT 

Joined: Tue January 6th, 2015, 15:03 GMT
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I hate it. One of the two songs on Desire that I always skip (the other is Mozambique). Nice tune, but awful, clichéd lyric writing, reaching its nadir with that bloody 'kelp' line.


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 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 409 Sara
PostPosted: Sun October 1st, 2017, 09:28 GMT 
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stjulienlepauvre wrote:
Mutabor, Thanks for including the alternate stanza. I see it as the most revealing.

What strikes me strongly about the song 'Sara' is that it wasn't a song about infatuation or lust. Sara Dylan had borne Bob 4 children by then. Anyone's who's been in that situation could see it in a different light, much more so than a schmaltzy 'love song.'



I think we can all agree it's Bob's most awkward song ("Sweet virgin angel". Ugh. "strength that belonged to the Gods ('75)" Yikes.)
It's too sentimental and sappy - but then again, I havent got any kids so maybe my opinion is void (not sure why though). But it's also one of the most catchy songs (Like Lay Lady Lay) or in the spirit of Caribbean Wind.

Doubt we'll ever hear it played live again though.


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 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 409 Sara
PostPosted: Sun October 1st, 2017, 10:04 GMT 

Joined: Fri January 5th, 2007, 23:38 GMT
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stjulienlepauvre wrote:
What strikes me strongly about the song 'Sara' is that it wasn't a song about infatuation or lust. Sara Dylan had borne Bob 4 children by then. Anyone's who's been in that situation could see it in a different light, much more so than a schmaltzy 'love song.'


Really wise comment.


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 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 409 Sara
PostPosted: Sun October 1st, 2017, 10:29 GMT 
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Can this song be unwritten? Totally hate it. In fact, I’m going to not put out until my husband revokes this song from his back catalog. :x


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 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 409 Sara
PostPosted: Sun October 1st, 2017, 10:55 GMT 
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dylanswife wrote:
Can this song be unwritten? Totally hate it. In fact, I’m going to not put out until my husband revokes this song from his back catalog. :x


There are a few songs that are ahead in line for being revoked. Union Sundown, If Dogs Run Free, Under the Red Sky.... So I suggest you start shopping for sensible shoes and getting your hair cut short.


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 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 409 Sara
PostPosted: Sun October 1st, 2017, 11:20 GMT 
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Anr Bjotk wrote:
dylanswife wrote:
Can this song be unwritten? Totally hate it. In fact, I’m going to not put out until my husband revokes this song from his back catalog. :x


There are a few songs that are ahead in line for being revoked. Union Sundown, If Dogs Run Free, Under the Red Sky.... So I suggest you start shopping for sensible shoes and getting your hair cut short.



I wouldn’t mind UTRS that much but it’s the title track that sets an awful and meaningless precedent, is out of order on the track list (should be the first or last track) and blah blah blah. Bob sure liked it though, he played it and Wiggle Wiggle quite a bit. But Born in time? Hardly ever!


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 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 409 Sara
PostPosted: Sun October 1st, 2017, 11:30 GMT 
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dylanswife wrote:
I wouldn’t mind UTRS that much but it’s the title track that sets an awful and meaningless precedent, is out of order on the track list (should be the first or last track) and blah blah blah. Bob sure liked it though, he played it and Wiggle Wiggle quite a bit. But Born in time? Hardly ever!


Makes sense, Wiggle Wiggle is the only decent track. Otherwise I'd rather forget it and would want my money back. 56 times for Born in Time is fair dues, I'd day. Only the 1995 versions are proper gems. You tell him to get back to 'Pretty Peggy-O' from me. We miss it.


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 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 409 Sara
PostPosted: Sun October 1st, 2017, 11:37 GMT 
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Anr Bjotk wrote:
dylanswife wrote:
I wouldn’t mind UTRS that much but it’s the title track that sets an awful and meaningless precedent, is out of order on the track list (should be the first or last track) and blah blah blah. Bob sure liked it though, he played it and Wiggle Wiggle quite a bit. But Born in time? Hardly ever!


Makes sense, Wiggle Wiggle is the only decent track. Otherwise I'd rather forget it and would want my money back. 56 times for Born in Time is fair dues, I'd day. Only the 1995 versions are proper gems. You tell him to get back to 'Pretty Peggy-O' from me. We miss it.


I didn’t realize he played it that many times, I would have guessed 15-20. I can’t recall hearing any 95 versions, but that is one of my favorite touring years with Crash On The Levee and Tambourine Man. The 1999 version of Born In Time with Clapton was pretty good iirc. Would love to hear PrettyPeggy-o or Lakes of Ponchartrain. Suppose it’s time to get waxed and dust off my Cordova Boots of Spanish leather


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 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 409 Sara
PostPosted: Sun October 1st, 2017, 11:43 GMT 
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dylanswife wrote:
I didn’t realize he played it that many times, I would have guessed 15-20. I can’t recall hearing any 95 versions, but that is one of my favorite touring years with Crash On The Levee and Tambourine Man. The 1999 version of Born In Time with Clapton was pretty good iirc. Would love to hear PrettyPeggy-o or Lakes of Ponchartrain.


Berkeley 1995 is superb. The Crossroads/Clapton Born in Time is fair, but pales compared to Don't Think Twice from the same gig.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/cttj044pnvm0ka2/1-04%20Born%20In%20Time.mp3


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 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 409 Sara
PostPosted: Thu October 5th, 2017, 11:17 GMT 

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I love this song great melody and one of Bobs great vocal performances.


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 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 409 Sara
PostPosted: Thu October 5th, 2017, 11:37 GMT 

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greatmate wrote:
I love this song great melody and one of Bobs great vocal performances.



I think it is a catchy song. I find myself singing and humming the tune here n there. I played it for my wife but she says the harmonica hurts her ears.


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