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 Post subject: Like a Sharon Stone
PostPosted: Tue November 27th, 2012, 17:56 GMT 

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That ain't Sharon Stone on Dylan's Playboy Cover. Anyone know who it is? Looks like an actress from the 1930s.


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 Post subject: Re: Like a Sharon Stone
PostPosted: Tue November 27th, 2012, 18:25 GMT 
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I think it looks like actress Mamie Van Doren, who was in a lot of films in the 1950s and 60s. She appeared in "Jet Pilot" with John Wayne in 1957 - and perhaps this silkscreen isn't the first time Bob has paid tribute to her?


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 Post subject: Re: Like a Sharon Stone
PostPosted: Tue November 27th, 2012, 18:49 GMT 
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March 78? It's Debra Jensen. What? Me neither.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Playboy-March-1 ... 3a7bc058f7


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 Post subject: Re: Like a Sharon Stone
PostPosted: Tue November 27th, 2012, 18:54 GMT 
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I'd like to add this, about Van Doren's autobiography. She reports having affairs with Clark Gable, Howard Hughes, Johnny Carson, Elvis Presley, Burt Reynolds, Jack Dempsey, Steve McQueen, Johnny Rivers, Robert Evans, Eddie Fisher, Warren Beatty, Tony Curtis, Steve Cochran and Joe Namath.

"I don't wear panties anymore - this startles the Hollywood wolves so much they don't know what to pull at so they leave me alone." ("Playing the Field: My Story")

Van Doren appeared on the cover of PLAYBOY twice in 1963.

Van Doren was one of the famous "Three M's" of 1950s Hollywood - Marilyn Monroe, Jayne Mansfield, Mamie Van Doren.


I told a couple of people when Tempest was released that I suspected the title might include a winking reference to burlesque star Tempest Storm. The more I've thought about that, the more possible it seems. This use of the image of Van Doren - perhaps one of a series of secret homages in Bob's work to various beautiful, buxom women he admired in his youth?


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 Post subject: Re: Like a Sharon Stone
PostPosted: Tue November 27th, 2012, 19:16 GMT 
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calling Scott Warmuth's image search button, sirennn.....


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 Post subject: Re: Like a Sharon Stone
PostPosted: Tue November 27th, 2012, 19:18 GMT 
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Came up in a search related to Van Doren:

UPI TELEPHOTO August 17, 1964

"Klean Kut Kids" - Photo Caption. "Beatle George Harrison, accompanied by Ringo Starr and John Lennon, throws his drink at a photographer in a Hollywood Jazz spot where the British rock 'n roll group went to celebrate their latest U.S. appearance. Jayne Mansfield seems unaware of the goings on. The drink hit the photographer, the deputy sheriff and Mamie Van Doren who was in the crowd." from the Portsmouth Times, Portsmouth, Ohio, 8/17/64


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 Post subject: Re: Like a Sharon Stone
PostPosted: Tue November 27th, 2012, 19:21 GMT 
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yea and rev, ove at the pool someone mentioned the back photo is a recreation of the cover photo of "A Date With Elvis" LP - cool huh!

i think its Kim Novak, Elvis' favorite at the time


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 Post subject: Re: Like a Sharon Stone
PostPosted: Tue November 27th, 2012, 20:18 GMT 
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Mamie Van Doren starred in two of the greatest rock'n'roll cheapies of the '50s - 'High School Confidential' (which included Jerry Lee Lewis in his prime performing the title song on the back of a flatback truck), and 'Untamed Youth' (with Eddie Cochran singing 'Cotton Picker' whilst doing just that). Mamie sang four songs in the latter film, including 'Like a Rolling Stone' (no, not that one). To see her doing this, go to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me86Z1MEZVQ


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 Post subject: Re: Like a Sharon Stone
PostPosted: Tue November 27th, 2012, 21:43 GMT 
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whatsittoya wrote:
Mamie Van Doren starred in two of the greatest rock'n'roll cheapies of the '50s - 'High School Confidential' (which included Jerry Lee Lewis in his prime performing the title song on the back of a flatback truck), and 'Untamed Youth' (with Eddie Cochran singing 'Cotton Picker' whilst doing just that). Mamie sang four songs in the latter film, including 'Like a Rolling Stone' (no, not that one). To see her doing this, go to


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me86Z1MEZVQ
^ Wow. Mamie Van Doren!

This all seems to (albeit tangentially) link Mamie Van Doren to like a rolling stone/jet pilot/clean cut kid

:shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Like a Sharon Stone
PostPosted: Tue November 27th, 2012, 21:58 GMT 
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Image

The March '66 Dylan interview issue cover model was one Femlin (the Playmate was Priscilla Wright).


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 Post subject: Re: Like a Sharon Stone
PostPosted: Tue November 27th, 2012, 22:42 GMT 
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Location: In a Conker Tree. Miles behind. Who to Baba. Skate boarding is not a crime..
Good grief. I like this thread so much.
I'm now looking thru ebay thinking about buying a bunch of old Playboys with interviews of fav artists, etc! I'm also looking at the one from the month/year I was born, the one from the month/year my gf was born, the one from when I turned ten years old, and I'm trying to find the first one I remember looking at!!

This is getting ridiculous!


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 Post subject: Re: Like a Sharon Stone
PostPosted: Wed November 28th, 2012, 02:39 GMT 

Joined: Fri June 2nd, 2006, 16:33 GMT
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I'm pretty sure it's not Mamie Van Doren. There are quite a few photos of her at this site, and the face doesn't seem right: http://www.briansdriveintheater.com/cheesecake.html. Any other ideas?


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 Post subject: Re: Like a Sharon Stone
PostPosted: Wed November 28th, 2012, 09:34 GMT 
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onetwomany wrote:
Good grief. I like this thread so much.



Me too! This is fun!




Hey scott warmuth! I hope you enjoyed those pms I sent you yesterday which you read immediately but did not respond to, detailing everything I found in my search of Mamie Van Doren which link to a number of associations with Bob's work. You're welcome. I have printed out and saved everything. I assume you would let me know before posting any of the material I found on that blog of yours. Best wishes.


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 Post subject: Re: Like a Sharon Stone
PostPosted: Wed November 28th, 2012, 10:06 GMT 
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Well, things seem to be well in hand here.


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 Post subject: Re: Like a Sharon Stone
PostPosted: Wed November 28th, 2012, 10:18 GMT 
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whatsittoya wrote:
Mamie Van Doren starred in two of the greatest rock'n'roll cheapies of the '50s - 'High School Confidential' (which included Jerry Lee Lewis in his prime performing the title song on the back of a flatback truck), and 'Untamed Youth' (with Eddie Cochran singing 'Cotton Picker' whilst doing just that). Mamie sang four songs in the latter film, including 'Like a Rolling Stone' (no, not that one). To see her doing this, go to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me86Z1MEZVQ



That is amazing, whatsittoya. Years before Bob wrote "Like A Rolling Stone," there's Mamie Van Doren singing "Like a rolling stone.....". And I used to think Bob got "like a rolling stone" from Hank William's "Lost Highway"! ("I'm a rolling stone, I'm alone and lost/For a life of sin, I've paid the cost/Take my advice, or you'll curse the day/You started going down that lost highway.")


I am finding even more links between Bob's work and Mamie Van Doren. This is a jackpot. Maybe there are tons of things in his work that are tributes to women he adored in the 1950s. Or maybe it's all about Mamie Van Doren! I'm starting to think that 'love and theft" is the biggest clue Bob has ever given to all of us who enjoy looking for his sources.


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 Post subject: Re: Like a Sharon Stone
PostPosted: Wed November 28th, 2012, 11:28 GMT 
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Well thanks to both of you (Rev and Whatsit) for uncovering this story. It looks pretty big already, and who knows how deep it could go?


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 Post subject: Re: Like a Sharon Stone
PostPosted: Thu November 29th, 2012, 19:19 GMT 
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josemesa wrote:
I'm pretty sure it's not Mamie Van Doren. There are quite a few photos of her at this site, and the face doesn't seem right: http://www.briansdriveintheater.com/cheesecake.html. Any other ideas?


Look again:

http://www.doctormacro.com/Images/Van%2 ... mie_03.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: Like a Sharon Stone
PostPosted: Thu November 29th, 2012, 19:34 GMT 
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josemesa wrote:
That ain't Sharon Stone on Dylan's Playboy Cover. Anyone know who it is? Looks like an actress from the 1930s.


I think that's the point of the artworks. Hence the title "Revisionist Art". Found images are combined with new/intentionally "wrong"/fake text (they are being revised) to form fictional magazine covers. I think it's hilarious and I love it.

I also love the fact that Bob has apparently worked with Photoshop to create those works. They were composed on a computer and then printed out on large canvases. Which means that in each of his major groups of artworks he has chosen a different technical approach. The original "Drawn Blank" drawings were notepad drawings (done I guess "in the field"). For the "Drawn Blank Series" those drawings were scanned, printed out on paper and canvas and then painted over. The "Brazil Series" paintings were done based on a variety of sources (I guess) and then transferred to canvas by hand without any technical support. For the "Asia Series" paintings I think that the found images were projected onto the canvases (probably by using a beamer) and then traced and the tracings painted over. They display a strong command of anatomy which could have been achieved by the use of projections. The use of projections in painting is much older then most people are aware of. In the 18th century Canaletto used a camera obscura to project his famous Venetian cityscapes onto canvas where he traced them and later painted over the tracings.

Check David Hockney's 2001 book "Secret Knowledge: Rediscovering the Lost Techniques of the Old Masters".


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 Post subject: Re: Like a Sharon Stone
PostPosted: Thu November 29th, 2012, 20:56 GMT 
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The fervent faith in "pure genius" is just going to be the psychic undoing of a lot of Dylan's fans -- whether in writing songs, Chronicles or in the paintings.

Thanks Echo and Rev and whatsit and Troubadour.


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 Post subject: Re: Like a Sharon Stone
PostPosted: Fri November 30th, 2012, 19:30 GMT 
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thanks, My Echo, good explanation and succinct.


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 Post subject: Re: Like a Sharon Stone
PostPosted: Fri November 30th, 2012, 19:49 GMT 
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A minor point, but in fact Hank Williams didn't actually write 'Lost Highway', a shock to me, but Dylan himself reveals the truth on the TTRH show 'Fathers' - it was written by the same guy who wrote 'I love you because'.

My loathing for Hugh Hefner makes it almost impossible to be objective about Playboy - an anachronism of a highly oppressed society.


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 Post subject: Re: Like a Sharon Stone
PostPosted: Fri November 30th, 2012, 21:14 GMT 
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Where's the oppression in being attracted to tits, already?

She's obviously not Mamie van Doren (and the journo schmucks that lazily pass her off as Sharon Stone should be fired), so who is she? Some 30's, racked, Jean Harlow wannabe, says I. Bobby loves his titties , doesn't he? Don't we all.


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 Post subject: Re: Like a Sharon Stone
PostPosted: Fri November 30th, 2012, 21:49 GMT 

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There's nothing wrong with using projections to create a picture, especially not when one can paint... Franz Gertsch exhibited his Patty Smith gigant oil paintings in the Gagosian in 2004.

http://www.museum-franzgertsch.ch/ausst ... php?exID=6


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 Post subject: Re: Like a Sharon Stone
PostPosted: Fri November 30th, 2012, 22:22 GMT 
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The only thing that adds value to Dylan's non-writerly artistic endeavours is his name. He's made his name, and what a name it is. A name that allows you to mount gallery shows of dreary, lazily revisited sub-pop art, and mount worldwide stages to bark out your greatest hits, for further commercial gain, with total qualitative indifference, and not a care for the increasingly bored band that stoically supports you, night after night after night after night after zzzzzzzzzzz.......


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 Post subject: Re: Like a Sharon Stone
PostPosted: Sat December 1st, 2012, 00:44 GMT 
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Hey, c'mon. Delia was pretty good.


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