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 Post subject: Re: Dylan's Education
PostPosted: Sun November 25th, 2012, 09:51 GMT 
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"We don't need no education. We don't need no thought control." A graduate in architecture said that.


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan's Education
PostPosted: Sun November 25th, 2012, 13:02 GMT 

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"The evil corrupter of youth is going to take him from Step One, which is a mere high-school diploma stuffed with a gym sock, to Step Two, which is a college-degree stuffed with absolutely nothing at all. Smoke that and it'll really get you out there!"

:mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan's Education
PostPosted: Sun November 25th, 2012, 14:23 GMT 
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I can't help but wonder how Dylan's music would have been different if he'd finished a proper university education and maybe even earned a graduate degree. Perhaps it would be more cerebral but I'd like that... and by the time he finished all of that we would have been well into the '70s which would have had a vast effect on his sound had all that stuff recorded in the '60s been held off. Instead of Al Kooper on the Hammond organ, perhaps he would have taken a Bach/baroque pipe organ approach to Highway 61 Revisited. I think everyone will have to admit, that would have changed the feel of the album tremendously.

The education would have enabled him to polish and refine his lyrics too... make them more dense and complicated instead of all those simplistic ideas thrown to the wind. It would be the kind of thing professors would devote courses to and college students would study. People would devote hours to analyzing his works.

If only he'd have finished his education...


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan's Education
PostPosted: Sun November 25th, 2012, 14:26 GMT 
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he would have been inundated with uninspiring and homogenous coursework until he was of the tender age and mature worldly viewpoint that was channelled in John Wesley Harding, skipping over the electric trilogy completely. the implications of this is cataclysmic, and frankly not healthy to think about this close to the ending of the world.


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan's Education
PostPosted: Sun November 25th, 2012, 14:34 GMT 
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No, I maintain he could have written the songs... he just wouldn't have been allowed a record contract until he completed his degree. Then he could record to his hearts content. The beauty in that is he would have recorded the electric trilogy around the time of the Before the Flood tour... a time when he was getting it right and I think they all would have sounded much different and to my ears better.

But woe is me... the world doesn't revolve around me and all those folks who've enjoyed them as they were officially released wold have missed out... perhaps they wouldn't appreciate the different sound. I guess that's rather selfish of me. Sorry... Carry on...


**I would still love for Dylan to re-record and release everything from the '60s with his current touring band. I'd snap every one of the new releases and cherish them.


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan's Education
PostPosted: Sun November 25th, 2012, 14:39 GMT 
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i can't see Desolation Row being written from an Ivory Tower, or having the same kind of punch,

but otherwise, I'd love to have heard all those songs redone in the 70s - perhaps even more so than what was put out there as it was! But no reason he couldn't have crammed it all in....might have even saved his marriage

But UP, have you thought about how that may have affected the Christian Quartet or the Eighties Majesty?


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan's Education
PostPosted: Sun November 25th, 2012, 14:55 GMT 
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Universities are notorious for turning young minds against God. They're bastions of atheists denouncing everything that is sacred. So, assuming he still experienced a conversion later on, the narcissism that was behind so much of the power of his lyrics in the Christian Quartet may have been replaced by... renderings from Thomas Aquinas, John Calvin, or Martin Luther and the albums would have been much different.

The glories of the '80s... One thing is for certain. Union Sundown, Neighborhood Bully, and the entire album Knocked Out Loaded would have been so different as to be unrecognizable from their present forms. I'm not sure that would be a good thing. They might lose some of their power and beauty if changed too much.


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan's Education
PostPosted: Sun November 25th, 2012, 15:04 GMT 
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MMD wrote:
UP is like a sufi saint. He redeems just by proximity. I can see my aura getting brighter and healthier when I read his posts. Someone ought to formally recognize his devotion to and evangelizing of the NET.

Speak ill of him at your own spiritual peril.



Yeah, he's kind of like a crazy uncle!! You just smile amonst the family and say,..... ah yes, Uncle Path( :roll: ), god bless him. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan's Education
PostPosted: Sun November 25th, 2012, 15:19 GMT 
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Untrodden Path wrote:
Universities are notorious for turning young minds against God. They're bastions of atheists denouncing everything that is sacred. So, assuming he still experienced a conversion later on, the narcissism that was behind so much of the power of his lyrics in the Christian Quartet may have been replaced by... renderings from Thomas Aquinas, John Calvin, or Martin Luther and the albums would have been much different.

The glories of the '80s... One thing is for certain. Union Sundown, Neighborhood Bully, and the entire album Knocked Out Loaded would have been so different as to be unrecognizable from their present forms. I'm not sure that would be a good thing. They might lose some of their power and beauty if changed too much.


all that's pretty true accept the active denouncing part - those notions are pretty much absolved in a non-conflictual blink of an eye, without an afterthought. Not really a big event. kind of like finishing the milk out of a cereal bowl - a necessary part of starting the day with a full and reasonable stomach. Happy Sabbath everyone!


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan's Education
PostPosted: Sun November 25th, 2012, 15:36 GMT 
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Untrodden Path wrote:
Universities are notorious for turning young minds against God.


I went to a famous "Christian" University. I can personally vouch for what you say here, UP.


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan's Education
PostPosted: Sun November 25th, 2012, 15:53 GMT 

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Given the peculiarities of young Dylans mimic and body language I think it is fair to say that he would have found it difficult to sit in a classroom, and concentrate on matters which don't really interrest him. Also, I doubt if teachers and professors where so very understanding of a student who dreams out of the window of becoming Elvis and who'd rather wriggle than sit, rather jump than stand and have no problem with making them understand that his superior mind just shreds their petty thoughts if they dare question his genius.

Thank heavens for his early birth, he'd be made to conform with Ritalin nowadays.


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan's Education
PostPosted: Sun November 25th, 2012, 15:57 GMT 
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Indeed he would.


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan's Education
PostPosted: Sun November 25th, 2012, 15:58 GMT 
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Mutabor wrote:

Thank heavens for his early birth, he'd be made to conform with Ritalin nowadays.


Oh, god. Isn't that the truth.


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan's Education
PostPosted: Sun November 25th, 2012, 20:16 GMT 
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raging_glory wrote:
Mutabor wrote:

Thank heavens for his early birth, he'd be made to conform with Ritalin nowadays.


Oh, god. Isn't that the truth.


Yeah, damn shame so many people turn to these things for their children now


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan's Education
PostPosted: Sun November 25th, 2012, 20:20 GMT 
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It's all good


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan's Education
PostPosted: Sun November 25th, 2012, 20:22 GMT 
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Untrodden Path wrote:
Universities are notorious for turning young minds against God. They're bastions of atheists denouncing everything that is sacred. So, assuming he still experienced a conversion later on, the narcissism that was behind so much of the power of his lyrics in the Christian Quartet may have been replaced by... renderings from Thomas Aquinas, John Calvin, or Martin Luther and the albums would have been much different.

The glories of the '80s... One thing is for certain. Union Sundown, Neighborhood Bully, and the entire album Knocked Out Loaded would have been so different as to be unrecognizable from their present forms. I'm not sure that would be a good thing. They might lose some of their power and beauty if changed too much.


I feel certain that Knocked Out Loaded would have the children's choir and steel drums on all the tracks if Dylan had completed his degree.


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan's Education
PostPosted: Sun November 25th, 2012, 20:28 GMT 
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Trev wrote:
Untrodden Path wrote:
Universities are notorious for turning young minds against God. They're bastions of atheists denouncing everything that is sacred. So, assuming he still experienced a conversion later on, the narcissism that was behind so much of the power of his lyrics in the Christian Quartet may have been replaced by... renderings from Thomas Aquinas, John Calvin, or Martin Luther and the albums would have been much different.

The glories of the '80s... One thing is for certain. Union Sundown, Neighborhood Bully, and the entire album Knocked Out Loaded would have been so different as to be unrecognizable from their present forms. I'm not sure that would be a good thing. They might lose some of their power and beauty if changed too much.


I feel certain that Knocked Out Loaded would have the children's choir and steel drums on all the tracks if Dylan had completed his degree.


So you think he'd have had far worse judgment with music?


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan's Education
PostPosted: Sun November 25th, 2012, 20:29 GMT 
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yep


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan's Education
PostPosted: Sun November 25th, 2012, 21:36 GMT 
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Trev wrote:
Untrodden Path wrote:
Universities are notorious for turning young minds against God. They're bastions of atheists denouncing everything that is sacred. So, assuming he still experienced a conversion later on, the narcissism that was behind so much of the power of his lyrics in the Christian Quartet may have been replaced by... renderings from Thomas Aquinas, John Calvin, or Martin Luther and the albums would have been much different.

The glories of the '80s... One thing is for certain. Union Sundown, Neighborhood Bully, and the entire album Knocked Out Loaded would have been so different as to be unrecognizable from their present forms. I'm not sure that would be a good thing. They might lose some of their power and beauty if changed too much.


I feel certain that Knocked Out Loaded would have the children's choir and steel drums on all the tracks if Dylan had completed his degree.

rolling_thunder wrote:
So you think he'd have had far worse judgment with music?

My very dear friends, Trev and rolling_thunder, enlighten me if you will, of a better use of a children's choir by Dylan than They Killed Him. And do, pray tell, do likewise concerning his use of steel drums on Precious Memories.

Those memories do linger and flood my soul and I come up empty handed when considering the questions I've asked of you. Perhaps you will discover something I have overlooked. If you do indeed find something, please do me the courtesy of reporting back so that I may enjoy them too.


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan's Education
PostPosted: Sun November 25th, 2012, 21:46 GMT 
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Well actually I enjoy Precious Memories...probably my favorite song on the album in fact. So I don't mind the use of Steel Drums, but the children's choir is horrific, and I would say that probably any use of a Children's Choir would be pretty horrible frankly. Children's Choirs just ain't my bag...

I guess Trev you're suggesting that perhaps Bob would've been a little too "artsy" and lost his touch with the common man's way of thinking even more so, if he had completed his college education?

Just curious


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan's Education
PostPosted: Tue November 27th, 2012, 01:11 GMT 
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My good pals UP and RT : Knocked Out Loaded is the work of a restless, uncontainable genius, with more madcap variety than any other Dylan album - it's hard to believe that it could have ever been produced by anyone who'd been constrained by a college for any stretch of time. To misquote someone or other, it's not the sound of someone who's ever thought to sit at a desk before standing up to live. I think the children's choir and steel drums are perfect, but they are perfect because they are not overused. He deploys them like strategic missiles, they brighten our day to devastating effect, but then it's on to the next stunning innovation.


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan's Education
PostPosted: Tue November 27th, 2012, 02:56 GMT 
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In some ways with Knocked Out Loaded Bob gave himself permission to do things differently than he'd ever done before... imagine if you will a children's choir or steel drums on any song from Highway 61 Revisited or Blonde On Blonde... imagine an entire Dylan album using a children's choir or steel drums... (I may be alone in thinking "WOW!!!") He used them sparingly and both turned out just fine... enough to whet the appetite so that we wonder what a little more would be like and not so much that it kills the effect.

But a full blown education and he may have included other as to yet unforeseen risks and we are the poorer for that... unless one counts the honorary degrees bestowed upon him from Princeton and St. Andrews... Interestingly (to me), aside from his '80s albums his best and most consistent work (again, to me) was after the bestowal of the St. Andrews degree. Maybe he was secretly working online?


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan's Education
PostPosted: Tue November 27th, 2012, 03:54 GMT 
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If he used a children's choir for a whole album. I have no doubt it would be the worst thing he ever did


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan's Education
PostPosted: Tue November 27th, 2012, 05:24 GMT 
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rolling_thunder wrote:
Well actually I enjoy Precious Memories...probably my favorite song on the album in fact. So I don't mind the use of Steel Drums, but the children's choir is horrific, and I would say that probably any use of a Children's Choir would be pretty horrible frankly. Children's Choirs just ain't my bag...



When he gets a children's choir for Christmas In The Heart II you'll be eating those words. With a big helping of mince pie.


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 Post subject: Re: Dylan's Education
PostPosted: Tue November 27th, 2012, 09:32 GMT 

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jimb727 wrote:
We all know our hero to be a brilliant lyricist, performer and lately even a quite capable writer. But where did this all come from. What do we really know about Dylan's formal education??
I think we can safely assume he graduated high school, though to take a ridiculous notion from a recent campaign(humorously) I've never seen a diploma!! :P
What do my fellow fans know about what Bob studied in his brief college career? If anything. He went to college a semester or two right?? At which university?? Minnesota?? I really don't know alot about what makes Dylan tick intellectually. Suze's "mentoring" played a part,...right?? How much a part?? Don't know alot about this area and thought it might make an interesting topic which I haven't seen discussed.


It's called the "never ending classroom". You get no diploma from that and it feeds on the capacity of intense interrest in all kinds of matters.


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