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PostPosted: Fri August 10th, 2012, 22:53 GMT 

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One way or another Dylan has always pointed a finger at those who have the power to abuse or enslave. The masters of war have been addressed on a number of levels. Much of ERK sounds as if it could be employed to describe the southern plantation owners who sexually and physically abused their slaves. Some Dylan songs make more sense in the context of the whole record. Time will tell, much depends on the afore mentioned relation of the narrator to the lyric.


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PostPosted: Fri August 10th, 2012, 23:27 GMT 

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senor10 wrote:
One way or another Dylan has always pointed a finger at those who have the power to abuse or enslave. The masters of war have been addressed on a number of levels. Much of ERK sounds as if it could be employed to describe the southern plantation owners who sexually and physically abused their slaves. Some Dylan songs make more sense in the context of the whole record. Time will tell, much depends on the afore mentioned relation of the narrator to the lyric.


That is exactly the way I read Dylan's vengeful type lyrics. When he sings something like "If I catch my enemies ever sleeping; I'll slaughter them where they lie." I assume he isn't talking about people who beat him playing cards. It seems plainly obvious to me he's talking metaphorically about people who monstrously abuse positions of great power. All his recent songs are set in The New Dark Ages.


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PostPosted: Fri August 10th, 2012, 23:36 GMT 
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patford wrote:
senor10 wrote:
One way or another Dylan has always pointed a finger at those who have the power to abuse or enslave. The masters of war have been addressed on a number of levels. Much of ERK sounds as if it could be employed to describe the southern plantation owners who sexually and physically abused their slaves. Some Dylan songs make more sense in the context of the whole record. Time will tell, much depends on the afore mentioned relation of the narrator to the lyric.


That is exactly the way I read Dylan's vengeful type lyrics. When he sings something like "If I catch my enemies ever sleeping; I'll slaughter them where they lie." I assume he isn't talking about people who beat him playing cards. It seems plainly obvious to me he's talking metaphorically about people who monstrously abuse positions of great power. All his recent songs are set in The New Dark Ages.


I agree, thanks.


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PostPosted: Fri August 10th, 2012, 23:50 GMT 
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Quote:
That is exactly the way I read Dylan's vengeful type lyrics. When he sings something like "If I catch my enemies ever sleeping; I'll slaughter them where they lie." I assume he isn't talking about people who beat him playing cards. It seems plainly obvious to me he's talking metaphorically about people who monstrously abuse positions of great power. All his recent songs are set in The New Dark Ages.


:D
the radiators did a record on the new dark ages. :wink: river run was my fav track. :D


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PostPosted: Fri August 10th, 2012, 23:54 GMT 

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Hmm, Satan outlining some of his influence, how well he's done and he's still around. This bit could be aimed at Jesus/God:

ding dong daddy
you’re coming up short
gonna put you on trial
in a sicilian court

Yeah, crossing fingers suggests a liar - don't yet understand the black mountain/ Detroit bit.

Kind of works though, doesn't it. Maybe Bob's been listening to the Stones.


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PostPosted: Sat August 11th, 2012, 00:04 GMT 

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The early Roman kings are the people in power today, yesterday and centuries ago. They are a symbolic representation of the ruling elites who pillage the underclasses. There is a distinct parallel being drawn between Antiquity and modern times that has been hinted at by Dylan's use of Ovid and other Roman poets, but seems much stronger in this song than before. It seems that Dylan has been strongly taken by the Classics lately.


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PostPosted: Sat August 11th, 2012, 00:24 GMT 

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Bob Dylan and The Old Testament, there are no 'Early Roman Kings' inside the 'Gates of Eden'.


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PostPosted: Sat August 11th, 2012, 00:45 GMT 

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billy2 wrote:
Yeah, crossing fingers suggests a liar - don't yet understand the black mountain/ Detroit bit.


The Black Mountain line is unique, because it's the only statement he makes about something he's actually done, and it doesn't suggest bravery or toughness. Everything else is, "I can do this," "I'm gonna do this" and "You'll see."

When I listen to the song, I don't think he's threatening anyone directly. He sounds like a coward living in violent times who's imagining what he'd say if he were as strong and decisive as these legendary kings.


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PostPosted: Sat August 11th, 2012, 01:36 GMT 
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jclibby wrote:
billy2 wrote:
Yeah, crossing fingers suggests a liar - don't yet understand the black mountain/ Detroit bit.


The Black Mountain line is unique, because it's the only statement he makes about something he's actually done, and it doesn't suggest bravery or toughness. Everything else is, "I can do this," "I'm gonna do this" and "You'll see."

When I listen to the song, I don't think he's threatening anyone directly. He sounds like a coward living in violent times who's imagining what he'd say if he were as strong and decisive as these legendary kings.


I like the idea of this narrator as cowardly, especially in the context of a devil-type character. He stood on that mountain and watched as "they killed 'em all" -- he wasn't down there doing the killing himself.


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PostPosted: Sat August 11th, 2012, 03:27 GMT 
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Bennyboy wrote:
Train-I-Ride wrote:
Those Early Morning Rainy Day Roman Kings Distributing Corn (# X11 & XXXV):

Image



My name is Modernus Bobus, Commander of the Robozombie Cowboy Band, General of the Never Ending Tour, loyal servant to the true emperors Bloody Waters, Scowling Fox and 'Hairy Palms' Horton & His Whistling Kettle, father to who knows how many sons, husband to a wife's home town, and I will have my vengeance -- on this album or the next.

:lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat August 11th, 2012, 06:55 GMT 
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I hate to admit this, but I haven't even listened to it! :shock: For some reason, I have no DESIRE. That's what is missing; there is no real desire in those lyrics and they aren't all that interesting to me. Bob is great at love songs, lost love songs, getting back at you love songs, but reading these lyrics just turns me off; I want to be turned on by a song and I want to feel some affinity with it. I don't want to watch people dying or cities crumbling and sorry if I have the lyrics wrong!! They just don't appeal to me and life is negative enough and bad enough without adding more negativity to it. I hope the rest of the album has better lyrics than this song. :? I do wonder what is going on in his head as the narrator; that person isn't very nice. Love, Joanna XOXO


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PostPosted: Sat August 11th, 2012, 09:06 GMT 
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^ Slip into a toga, and dance around your living room, waving a sword, J0hanna. That'll get you in the mood. :D


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PostPosted: Sat August 11th, 2012, 09:35 GMT 
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And punch a few peasants, while setting fire to their village.


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PostPosted: Sat August 11th, 2012, 13:08 GMT 
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and then post some pictures documenting your experience !


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PostPosted: Tue August 14th, 2012, 16:02 GMT 
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patford wrote:
When he sings something like "If I catch my enemies ever sleeping; I'll slaughter them where they lie."


You know that this line was written almost two thousand years ago by the roman poet Ovid?


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PostPosted: Tue August 14th, 2012, 18:19 GMT 

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It's my understanding Ovid nicked it off an Egyptian poet from the first dynasty.


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PostPosted: Tue August 14th, 2012, 18:24 GMT 
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patford wrote:
It's my understanding Ovid nicked it off an Egyptian poet from the first dynasty.


Could well be.

Do you think Dylan have read him too? The Egyptian I mean? :lol:

The point is that that line says absolutely nothing about Dylan, other that he has good taste in literature and knows a good line when he reads one...


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PostPosted: Tue August 14th, 2012, 18:56 GMT 
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An article about Dylan's extensive use of Ovid and other classical and contemporary sources.

http://journal.oraltradition.org/files/ ... Thomas.pdf


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PostPosted: Tue August 14th, 2012, 19:08 GMT 
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This discussion reminded me of this:

..."why, in a moment look to see
The blind and bloody soldier with foul hand
Defile the locks of your shrill-shrieking daughters;
Your fathers taken by the silver beards,
And their most reverent heads dashed to the walls;
Your naked infants spitted upon pikes,
Whiles the mad mothers with their howls confused
Do break the clouds, as did the wives of Jewry
At Herod’s bloody-hunting slaughtermen."
(Shakespeare Henry V at the Agincourt gates)


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PostPosted: Tue August 14th, 2012, 19:27 GMT 
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dont wanna get all religious here but i thought the "i can strip of life" verse was a great retort to the richard dawkins "supernatural creator crew" who dont believe in nothing or no one...
when he sings "one day you will ask for me ~ there'll be no one else you'll wanna see"


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PostPosted: Tue August 14th, 2012, 19:53 GMT 
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This song is proving to be a beguiling house of cards, that's for sure.


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PostPosted: Tue August 14th, 2012, 20:11 GMT 

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JKELLY wrote:
dont wanna get all religious here but i thought the "i can strip of life" verse was a great retort to the richard dawkins "supernatural creator crew" who dont believe in nothing or no one...
when he sings "one day you will ask for me ~ there'll be no one else you'll wanna see"


Half of the "I can strip you of life" verse is taken from the Odyssey.


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PostPosted: Tue August 14th, 2012, 21:59 GMT 

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So? You think because he took it from somewhere else he didn't mean anything by it? I think the opposite.


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PostPosted: Wed August 15th, 2012, 03:32 GMT 
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Okay, it's another blues song, but whatever, it's still a million times better than any of the other music you're gonna hear these days! Still sounds like the genius Dylan I know and love! Seven days til I see him in CONCERT! :D


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PostPosted: Wed August 15th, 2012, 09:39 GMT 
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"A college professor told me that if you read about Greece in the history books, you'll know all about America. Nothing that happens will puzzle you ever again.
You read the history of Ancient Greece and when the Romans came in, and nothing will ever bother you about America again.
You'll see what America is."

Bob Dylan to Paul Zollo 1991


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