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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 21:44 GMT 
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You see, there is a difference between narrative voice and the singer himself. Is no one familiar with the concept of an unreliable narrator? If Al Pacino plays the role of the devil in a film, does that make him an evil person? Do you really believe that every line of every song Dylan has ever sung expresses his own personal beliefs?


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 21:52 GMT 
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I found the song to be a bit boring.... Old tune with new words. Mannish Boy is better though.

I did like this verse though:
"I ain’t dead yet
my bell still rings
I keep my fingers crossed
like them early roman kings"


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 21:56 GMT 

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Gettting upset. refuse to buy the single 'cause I'm just going to order the whole album. But man, do I want to hear.


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 21:58 GMT 
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Patience is def. a virtue.

I listened to the Youtube clip of the show with the Early Roman Kings and it definitely ruined my first listen of the full song.

I kept expecting gun shots....


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 22:03 GMT 
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iamhere wrote:
Gettting upset. refuse to buy the single 'cause I'm just going to order the whole album. But man, do I want to hear.



the youtube and the tumbler has it. a grade A++++ track with some more tastefull contributions from the great David Hidalgo. if you listen carefully you'll soon enough note the intricate arrangement by bob, the fantastic and interesting interplay of instruments. a true jack frost production. :D
the words music and singing is classic bob. unique. a must listen. :wink:


Last edited by goombay on Wed August 8th, 2012, 22:19 GMT, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 22:09 GMT 
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Amen to that! seconded!


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 22:34 GMT 

Joined: Fri December 7th, 2007, 17:06 GMT
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Bennyboy wrote:
"I aint afraid to make love to a bitch or a hag"

Thats some line eh?

I find it rather unpalatable myself. How does it strike you?



I very well may be wrong, but I'm hearing:

"I ain't afraid to make love / to a habitual hag"


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PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 00:39 GMT 

Joined: Sun June 3rd, 2007, 17:37 GMT
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Location: New Orleans, LA
Tenneesee Williams wrote:
Bennyboy wrote:
"I aint afraid to make love to a bitch or a hag"

Thats some line eh?

I find it rather unpalatable myself. How does it strike you?



I very well may be wrong, but I'm hearing:

"I ain't afraid to make love / to a habitual hag"


You're definitely wrong, Tennessee. I found it quite disturbing. I wrote an article circa 2003 about Bob's sexism, which has always been there, but lately he's taken it to new levels.


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PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 00:52 GMT 
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movin_after_midnight wrote:
You see, there is a difference between narrative voice and the singer himself. Is no one familiar with the concept of an unreliable narrator? If Al Pacino plays the role of the devil in a film, does that make him an evil person? Do you really believe that every line of every song Dylan has ever sung expresses his own personal beliefs?


:!:


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PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 01:11 GMT 
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PaxViri wrote:

You're definitely wrong, Tennessee. I found it quite disturbing. I wrote an article circa 2003 about Bob's sexism, which has always been there, but lately he's taken it to new levels.


Bob's an old school WWII kind of guy.

A man's man. No question about it.


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PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 01:41 GMT 
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Bennyboy wrote:
"I aint afraid to make love to a bitch or a hag"

Thats some line eh?

I find it rather unpalatable myself. How does it strike you?



Tenneesee Williams wrote:
I very well may be wrong, but I'm hearing:

"I ain't afraid to make love / to a habitual hag"

Oooooh. I'll have to go back for another listen, which is FUN, by the way. An excuse to go back! I like your spirit here Tennessee. I hope you're right.


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PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 01:48 GMT 
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Still Go Barefoot wrote:
Bennyboy wrote:
"I aint afraid to make love to a bitch or a hag"

Thats some line eh?

I find it rather unpalatable myself. How does it strike you?



Tenneesee Williams wrote:
I very well may be wrong, but I'm hearing:

"I ain't afraid to make love / to a habitual hag"

Oooooh. I'll have to go back for another listen, which is FUN, by the way. An excuse to go back! I like your spirit here Tennessee. I hope you're right.

Wrong.


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PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 01:49 GMT 
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Maybe it depends on your speakers but he very clearly says bitch or hag.


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PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 02:01 GMT 
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Jerry wrote:
Maybe it depends on your speakers but he very clearly says bitch or hag.


I've listened to it multiple times over the past 24 hours and it's said this ^ way.


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PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 02:21 GMT 

Joined: Wed July 16th, 2008, 11:56 GMT
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Lots of the best looking women are bitches, did it ever lower their attraction. Aside from that a lot of men are afraid to work the oracle for fear of contacting some awful disease. Dylan may be saying that young or old he takes it as he comes. Then again, who knows.


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PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 02:25 GMT 
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Something makes me think it's a quote, or a theft if you will.


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PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 02:41 GMT 
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smoke wrote:
Something makes me think it's a quote, or a theft if you will.

You got it smoke. I put my research over in the 'Early Roman Kings and the Odissey' thread toward the bottom of page 1.


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PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 03:03 GMT 
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dylan1941 wrote:
oath, mumbles, oath. This Dream of You was stunning


Check out the writing credits. It's the only one with Dylan alone. And it's the best song on the album IMO.


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PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 03:13 GMT 
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that's what I mean. It's a beautiful, suicidal rhumba


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PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 03:33 GMT 
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I actually don't think the bitch or hag line is sexist. I think it would have to be about women to be sexist. I read it as an open-hearted acceptance of life even in its uglier forms couched in a faux, blues-informed machismo made, to my ears, all the more effective by its blatant political incorrectness.


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PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 03:47 GMT 
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dylan1941 wrote:
that's what I mean. It's a beautiful, suicidal rhumba


Yeah, I'm not good at identifying the forms. Suffice to say, I'd rather drink to it than dance to it.


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PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 04:58 GMT 
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I like it when Mumbles drops in and posts some hard core reasonable sh*t.

I mean, we've already speculated the narrator is the Devil - must he be politically correct too??
maybe there are no weekends in Hell...


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PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 05:15 GMT 
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Thanks Troub. I want a T-shirt that says "This is some hard-core reasonable sh*t."


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PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 08:05 GMT 

Joined: Mon November 15th, 2004, 13:51 GMT
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Location: Arezzo, Tuscany, Italy.
"Burn down the disco
Hang the blessed DJ
The music they constantly play
Says nothing to me about my life"


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PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 08:15 GMT 
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I don´t like the line "to a bitch or a hag" either. The rest of lyrics is very nice so I like the song as a whole but this line sounds unnecessary. Just vulgar somehow... I don´t think children will sing this song in a school bus - but I see no reason to use those words just there. The conjunction "or" makes me believe that those words should contrast age of these women, not the profession. But I didn´t learn these words in school so I don´t know. It´s just a feeling that "a hag" must be an older lady than the previous one... I understand that the narrator and the singer is a different person but with the respect to singers age it seems just unnecessary. I mean why should a narrator be afraid and of what? But I (quite sadistically) enjoy the vision of the singer and the narrator in one person standing on the stage and singing that right in the face of us. He is really a great performer!


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