Expecting Rain

Go to main page
It is currently Wed November 22nd, 2017, 03:56 GMT

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 336 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 ... 14  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 17:23 GMT 
Titanium Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 11th, 2011, 05:31 GMT
Posts: 5032
Troubadour64 wrote:
yes but people knew the difference between the Monkees and the Beatles. Today, you can find people who don't.

Nonsense.

I said maybe, Jo. Rev's the one saying that it ain't there.
Anyway, I already said that I find current Dylan very pro-life for the most part. Not really hopeless or anything like that.


Last edited by Giada on Thu August 9th, 2012, 17:30 GMT, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 17:29 GMT 
Titanium Member

Joined: Wed April 27th, 2011, 03:44 GMT
Posts: 7568
Location: the home for teenage dirt
Johanna Parker wrote:
the_revelator wrote:
Nice that Movin' referred to the Johnny Cash dichotomy. Compassion has never been Dylan's default position but there's a lot that was 'vulnerable' in Dylan from the very start. That seems lost for the most part now. I don't see 'vulnerable' anymore.


You don't see / hear vulnerable in Forgetful Heart? You're missing things not seeing him live.



I saw him perform "Forgetful Heart" live. I think it was November 11, 2009. When I've had critical things to say about the recent live performances, it's not because I've never seen them, you know. I saw him perform live almost exactly a year ago. There are disenchanted people who have been attending the live shows. When I've been critical of them, it's because of lived experience and not from a desire to be argumentative or obnoxious about him without having a clue what the shows are like.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 17:39 GMT 

Joined: Sun November 7th, 2004, 18:31 GMT
Posts: 408
The world that Bob Dylan came of age in, an America with a thriving middle class still high on post war euphoria and NASA, is basically demolished. It's not hard to see how a man who was idealistic in the earlier era has become severely disillusioned. Despite the call for progress brought about in the mid 20th century,the 21st century is a mess of paranoia, consumerism, and distraction. Life might be easier today than ever before, but there is a strong global malaise that is rooted in the mess of violence and dishonesty that is being embraced by all institutions both in government and commercially. The Early Roman Kings are still in power and destroying and hollowing out our towns.

Also, I think it's worthy to note that the first half of the song denounces the violence of the early roman kings and their actions while the second half of the song has the narrator posturing himself as one of these figures. I don't think it's as simple as Dylan glorifying violence. There is a sense of an unreliable narrator who at once realizes the evils of the kings but still is tempted by the lifestyle they lead. By yielding to this temptation, I don't think that Dylan the narrator is being shown as a hero by Dylan the songwriter. I think it's a mistake to assume that Dylan the man is glorifying the narrator of the song. He is actually subtly undercutting him and his boastful claims.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 17:41 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue December 14th, 2010, 14:22 GMT
Posts: 43267
Location: Beneath the Southern X
@rev:
I must have misremembered you saying you didn't listen to him live anymore. Anyway, you didn't answer my question.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 17:49 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Fri September 26th, 2008, 18:42 GMT
Posts: 507
"one day
you will ask for me
there’ll be no one else"


I immediately thought about the line from the 'I'm Not There" publicity poster when I saw this:

"He is Everyone; He is No One"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 17:55 GMT 
Titanium Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue June 30th, 2009, 05:06 GMT
Posts: 8848
Location: you try to get away...they drag you back
Giada wrote:
Troubadour64 wrote:
yes but people knew the difference between the Monkees and the Beatles. Today, you can find people who don't.

Nonsense.



How can that be nonsense! i've quoted a real life experience I've had. People my age! (I'm not suggesting these people would be members of music forums). There are also plenty of people who couldn't name one song written by the Band if asked. But will gladly do karaoke to the Weight...

Nice post, ToilandBlood!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 18:07 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat October 27th, 2007, 12:44 GMT
Posts: 16759
Location: Workin' as a postal clerk
I think the "nonsense" referred to the idea that everyone knew the difference between the Monkees and the Beatles...some people don't care about the arts and never will and a pretty face and danceable beat are all they ask for or care about.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 18:12 GMT 
Mercury Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed September 14th, 2011, 13:25 GMT
Posts: 12325
Location: Wherever I am welcome
toilandblood546 wrote:
The world that Bob Dylan came of age in, an America with a thriving middle class still high on post war euphoria and NASA, is basically demolished. It's not hard to see how a man who was idealistic in the earlier era has become severely disillusioned. Despite the call for progress brought about in the mid 20th century,the 21st century is a mess of paranoia, consumerism, and distraction. Life might be easier today than ever before, but there is a strong global malaise that is rooted in the mess of violence and dishonesty that is being embraced by all institutions both in government and commercially. The Early Roman Kings are still in power and destroying and hollowing out our towns.

Also, I think it's worthy to note that the first half of the song denounces the violence of the early roman kings and their actions while the second half of the song has the narrator posturing himself as one of these figures. I don't think it's as simple as Dylan glorifying violence. There is a sense of an unreliable narrator who at once realizes the evils of the kings but still is tempted by the lifestyle they lead. By yielding to this temptation, I don't think that Dylan the narrator is being shown as a hero by Dylan the songwriter. I think it's a mistake to assume that Dylan the man is glorifying the narrator of the song. He is actually subtly undercutting him and his boastful claims.


Excellent post toilandblood! That's is what I would have said if I was able :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 18:22 GMT 
Titanium Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 13th, 2009, 01:17 GMT
Posts: 6972
smoke wrote:
I think the "nonsense" referred to the idea that everyone knew the difference between the Monkees and the Beatles...some people don't care about the arts and never will and a pretty face and danceable beat are all they ask for or care about.

Me, I thought Giada was quoting the wrong post in answer to Ms Parker. Otherwise, I'm with troubs - of course people knew the difference between the Monkees and the Beatles. We'll await Giada's clarification ... :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 18:30 GMT 
Titanium Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue June 30th, 2009, 05:06 GMT
Posts: 8848
Location: you try to get away...they drag you back
we all know this is a nonsense free zone anyhow... :lol: :lol:

Mabel, what do you think about the new song? have you heard it?

I think it pairs nicely with My Wife's Hometown.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 18:32 GMT 
Titanium Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat April 18th, 2009, 21:24 GMT
Posts: 5942
i love the monkees great group, with monster material. id rather listen to them the beatles :shock:

bob will never succumb to doing something like that empire of dirt song video johnny cash did. never gonna happen, never gonna give somebody the satisfaction. :wink:

he's said as much. im a 1000000000 percent with bob , j cash from sun yes j cash from r rubin no. :P


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 18:36 GMT 
Titanium Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat April 18th, 2009, 21:24 GMT
Posts: 5942
Giada wrote:
Troubadour64 wrote:
yes but people knew the difference between the Monkees and the Beatles. Today, you can find people who don't.

Nonsense.

I said maybe, Jo. Rev's the one saying that it ain't there.
Anyway, I already said that I find current Dylan very pro-life for the most part. Not really hopeless or anything like that.



as many people can tell the beatles from the monkees today than at any previous time. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 18:37 GMT 
Titanium Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 13th, 2009, 01:17 GMT
Posts: 6972
^ Nonsense! I say, nonsense!! :lol:

Hi troubs. Yep, I've heard it (well the bit used on the TV trailer.) I couldn't decide whether the Muddy or the Bo song was the basis - I've come down on the side of Bo's "I'm A Man". As I said somewhere on some other ginormous thread, the band make a real good fist of the tune. And Bob's none too shabby on the vox n words. All in all, yeah, I guess I like it ... :mrgreen:

EDIT: this in reply to troubs, not goombs ... I really don't know wtf goombs is on :P


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 19:10 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Thu September 3rd, 2009, 23:38 GMT
Posts: 1931
Location: Mount Vernon, Washington, USA
toilandblood546 wrote:
The world that Bob Dylan came of age in, an America with a thriving middle class still high on post war euphoria and NASA, is basically demolished. It's not hard to see how a man who was idealistic in the earlier era has become severely disillusioned. Despite the call for progress brought about in the mid 20th century,the 21st century is a mess of paranoia, consumerism, and distraction. Life might be easier today than ever before, but there is a strong global malaise that is rooted in the mess of violence and dishonesty that is being embraced by all institutions both in government and commercially. The Early Roman Kings are still in power and destroying and hollowing out our towns.

Also, I think it's worthy to note that the first half of the song denounces the violence of the early roman kings and their actions while the second half of the song has the narrator posturing himself as one of these figures. I don't think it's as simple as Dylan glorifying violence. There is a sense of an unreliable narrator who at once realizes the evils of the kings but still is tempted by the lifestyle they lead. By yielding to this temptation, I don't think that Dylan the narrator is being shown as a hero by Dylan the songwriter. I think it's a mistake to assume that Dylan the man is glorifying the narrator of the song. He is actually subtly undercutting him and his boastful claims.


Outstanding post. You really nailed it, toil.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 19:22 GMT 

Joined: Wed May 18th, 2011, 19:28 GMT
Posts: 919
The problem with Joey is it's not violent enough. It soft-peddles it in an attempt to portray a vicious, lowlife thug as some kind of peace-lovin', gun-hatin', man-of-the-people folk hero. There's nothing wrong with writing a song about Joey Gallo, it's the dishonesty that grates.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 19:41 GMT 
Titanium Member

Joined: Wed April 27th, 2011, 03:44 GMT
Posts: 7568
Location: the home for teenage dirt
toilandblood546 wrote:
The world that Bob Dylan came of age in, an America with a thriving middle class still high on post war euphoria and NASA, is basically demolished. It's not hard to see how a man who was idealistic in the earlier era has become severely disillusioned. Despite the call for progress brought about in the mid 20th century,the 21st century is a mess of paranoia, consumerism, and distraction. Life might be easier today than ever before, but there is a strong global malaise that is rooted in the mess of violence and dishonesty that is being embraced by all institutions both in government and commercially. The Early Roman Kings are still in power and destroying and hollowing out our towns.

Also, I think it's worthy to note that the first half of the song denounces the violence of the early roman kings and their actions while the second half of the song has the narrator posturing himself as one of these figures. I don't think it's as simple as Dylan glorifying violence. There is a sense of an unreliable narrator who at once realizes the evils of the kings but still is tempted by the lifestyle they lead. By yielding to this temptation, I don't think that Dylan the narrator is being shown as a hero by Dylan the songwriter. I think it's a mistake to assume that Dylan the man is glorifying the narrator of the song. He is actually subtly undercutting him and his boastful claims.


That's a very interesting read and I need to look at the lyrics more carefully. Thanks for this.


Last edited by the_revelator on Thu August 9th, 2012, 19:43 GMT, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 19:42 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Sat April 8th, 2006, 22:57 GMT
Posts: 2251
toilandblood546 wrote:
The world that Bob Dylan came of age in, an America with a thriving middle class still high on post war euphoria and NASA, is basically demolished. It's not hard to see how a man who was idealistic in the earlier era has become severely disillusioned. Despite the call for progress brought about in the mid 20th century,the 21st century is a mess of paranoia, consumerism, and distraction. Life might be easier today than ever before, but there is a strong global malaise that is rooted in the mess of violence and dishonesty that is being embraced by all institutions both in government and commercially. The Early Roman Kings are still in power and destroying and hollowing out our towns.

Also, I think it's worthy to note that the first half of the song denounces the violence of the early roman kings and their actions while the second half of the song has the narrator posturing himself as one of these figures. I don't think it's as simple as Dylan glorifying violence. There is a sense of an unreliable narrator who at once realizes the evils of the kings but still is tempted by the lifestyle they lead. By yielding to this temptation, I don't think that Dylan the narrator is being shown as a hero by Dylan the songwriter. I think it's a mistake to assume that Dylan the man is glorifying the narrator of the song. He is actually subtly undercutting him and his boastful claims.


I think you have it nailed.


the_revelator wrote:

...This may be a personal trope for Dylan now, or it might be an aesthetic choice to create a mythic and universal landscape he wishes to present as steeped in violence (this reminds me of Cormac McCarthy, who of course is not in favor of violence, but it's the primary color of his palette). ...


You must not have been to Detroit or Flint, MI in the last couple of years.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 19:46 GMT 
Titanium Member

Joined: Wed April 27th, 2011, 03:44 GMT
Posts: 7568
Location: the home for teenage dirt
Belle Laugh - I haven't been to Detroit in over a decade. I'm not sure I get your point. Can you say anymore? Thank you.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 19:52 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Sat April 8th, 2006, 22:57 GMT
Posts: 2251
Rev! It's terrible and depressing to go back there, if you have ever been when it was a great place to visit. Beautiful old neighborhoods by the thousands boarded up, abandoned, gang-riddled. Some places being torn down rather than sold in an attempt to just keep the crime down. That's basically what I meant. Because that's what I get out of Early Roman Kings, to some extent, at least in this first understanding.

Although, I sure do love Bob's delivery of that "in their shark-skin suits" :lol: Also, though, may be a different kind of shark.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 20:01 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Mon June 20th, 2011, 22:26 GMT
Posts: 259
I feel like this verse really resonates today. Thursday:

"Tomorrow is friday
we’ll see what it brings
everybody’s talking
bout the early roman kings"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 20:25 GMT 
Senior Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed June 6th, 2007, 20:48 GMT
Posts: 9039
Location: In the land of the midnight sun
Just got back from a whole week at work, and hear through this track for the first time.
All I can say is... BOBBBBYYY!! You've done it again! Magnificent song! 8)
Can't wait to hear the rest of 'em!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 20:32 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue December 14th, 2010, 14:22 GMT
Posts: 43267
Location: Beneath the Southern X
^^
Too late, the all-knowing, omnipotent jury already decided against it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 20:38 GMT 

Joined: Sat June 9th, 2012, 19:31 GMT
Posts: 654
It never surprises me when people dislike, or even hate, what Dylan is doing. What is surprising is how many people there are who have time and money to burn on things they don't like. When I don't like music I pay no attention to it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 20:39 GMT 
Senior Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed June 6th, 2007, 20:48 GMT
Posts: 9039
Location: In the land of the midnight sun
Objection!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu August 9th, 2012, 20:41 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue December 14th, 2010, 14:22 GMT
Posts: 43267
Location: Beneath the Southern X
patford wrote:
It never surprises me when people dislike, or even hate, what Dylan is doing. What is surprising is how many people there are who have time and money to burn on things they don't like. When I don't like music I pay no attention to it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ8RR3croQw


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 336 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 ... 14  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Mr. Goldsmith


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group