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PostPosted: Fri May 18th, 2012, 11:54 GMT 

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Just listened to this all the way through again, and I would like to add that I don't think it's a perfect album by any means. I just don't think that of all the things to quibble about it should be Dylan's vocals, which again are for the most part some of the best of his latter day career. I do now hear what Bennyboy means about the vocal track sounding like it's been "treated" in places, but whatever it was they did, I think it was a very sympathetic and welcome treatment.

I also don't think the abounding mellowness and occasional sentimentality makes MT weak, because there are some heavier, more menacing elements to offset it and as MrJudasPriest said, it actually serves to give the album a distinct feel from its more aggressive predecessor. It does share many of the conceptual strengths of L&T, however.

There are plenty of intricacies and dynamics to the instrumental interplay if you're listening for them. I do agree some of the songs seem to go on a bit long, though ironically not some of the longest ones. NETTIE MOORE and AIN'T TALKIN' are absolutely transfixing from start to finish. WORKINGMAN'S BLUES #2 has a beautiful feel to it, and lots of great verses, but the chorus becomes a just slightly repetitive. LEVEE too, though again I really dig the groove. SPIRIT is mostly gorgeous...infectious riff, delightful melody, great song and singing, but starts off a bit rocky and the ends a bit unsatisfyingly with a drawn out but not very dynamic harmonica solo. THUNDER and TUMBLIN' wouldn't've been hurt by losing a verse or two. WHEN THE DEAL GOES DOWN and SOMEDAY BABY are just about perfect lengthwise. If there is a real Achilles' heel it's BEYOND THE HORIZON, which has slight lyrics, boring music, and the spottiest vocal on the whole album, to boot. But I don't think it brings down the whole record given what comes before and after it, especially since it's easy enough to skip.

For me the album works better while driving than sitting in one place listening. When you're on the road the repetition feels right, like the turning of the wheels and the passing of the scenery. It's also more of a late afternoon/evening into-the-night type album than a morning or broad daylight one. For me at least.

Anyway, just a few additional thoughts. Hope I'm not belaboring it.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18th, 2012, 12:05 GMT 
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The Mighty Monkey Of Mim wrote:
For me the album works better while driving than sitting in one place listening. When you're on the road the repetition feels right, like the turning of the wheels and the passing of the scenery. It's also more of a late-afternoon-turning-into-night album than a morning or broad daylight one. For me at least.

Anyway, just a few additional thoughts. Hope I'm not belaboring it.


I agree totally - for me, its not an album that can be closely listened to without wanting to snap it in half. As background music, its fine though - which probably explains why it sold so many copies, as it is perfect dinner party wallpaper, or inoffensive chunter while driving. I was on holiday in Belgium shortly after the album came out, and a little cafe I was in started playing it. Sounded alright while I munched on me moules et frites.....


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PostPosted: Fri May 18th, 2012, 12:11 GMT 

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Are you, by chance...mocking me? :lol:

Good times, BB. :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Fri May 18th, 2012, 14:57 GMT 
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Quote:
Quote:
If you're on your own, yes. With a band that won't be a good idea, but i'm sure some will accomodate. But then you might as well get a good sounding room and do it yourself. no studio needed, as many do, like you said. To counter that, some studios are well known for their acoustic qualities. I remember a particular reggae studio where everything was nailed down and miced to an inch, to get that great sound.
If you want a 'sun' sounding recording, then you have to factor in, apart from the mic, the desk (used to be valves 'till early 70's) compressor, tape, and a great room. In many ways it was easier in them days because you had fewer options, so you couldn't really go that far wrong. Most of the 50's recordings were just a mic here and there, balancing it out a bit and off you go.Nowadays they take gazzillion tracks and a whole year to produce a record. No wonder people get fed up. I think most Dylan records were done live in the studio in a few takes, and you can hear it.

I apologise, just got off-track here.better suited in another thread/post

thank you i didnt know that. ill print this out and keep it. ( recording on one mic is done by many bands specially does looking for a lo fi feel.)

i think bob should release his records in computer format so every fan can have his version of the album according to their superior tastes. click one and no reverb or gizmos on the vocal press two and its live vocal with a personal greeting from bob. press 3 and its rock versions press 4 and its bluegrass versions.

and a big thanx to all the frustrated musicians out there who obviously are SOO much talented than he is and should be rich and famous but are living off a chick, or manning the checkout lounge at the beer joint.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18th, 2012, 15:12 GMT 

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goombay wrote:

i think bob should release his records in computer format so every fan can have his version of the album according to their superior tastes. click one and no reverb or gizmos on the vocal press two and its live vocal with a personal greeting from bob. press 3 and its rock versions press 4 and its bluegrass versions.
and a big thanx to all the frustrated musicians out there who obviously are SOO much talented than he is and should be rich and famous but are living off a chick, or manning the checkout lounge at the beer joint.


I honestly think this is a fabulous idea. I've long thought something similar should be done with DVDs or online movies, too - where you can alter the film to insert deleted scenes into the running order, or change around the sequencing, etc.. For all the explosion of technology in entertainment, they have barely begun to scratch the surface of what it could mean in terms of consumer control over the product. If anything, they've gone cowabunga to try to constrain any such control. But I think, ultimately, something like this is gonna happen. It's not like the old days where we thought of albums as set in stone like historic documents - the messy nature of the creative process is pretty obvious to any attentive fan, and it would be intriguing to see an artist like Bob embrace this for his studio work as he has already done with his live work.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18th, 2012, 15:16 GMT 
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Lone Pilgrim wrote:
goombay wrote:

i think bob should release his records in computer format so every fan can have his version of the album according to their superior tastes. click one and no reverb or gizmos on the vocal press two and its live vocal with a personal greeting from bob. press 3 and its rock versions press 4 and its bluegrass versions.
and a big thanx to all the frustrated musicians out there who obviously are SOO much talented than he is and should be rich and famous but are living off a chick, or manning the checkout lounge at the beer joint.


I honestly think this is a fabulous idea. I've long thought something similar should be done with DVDs or online movies, too - where you can alter the film to insert deleted scenes into the running order, or change around the sequencing, etc.. For all the explosion of technology in entertainment, they have barely begun to scratch the surface of what it could mean in terms of consumer control over the product. If anything, they've gone cowabunga to try to constrain any such control. But I think, ultimately, something like this is gonna happen. It's not like the old days where we thought of albums as set in stone like historic documents - the messy nature of the creative process is pretty obvious to any attentive fan, and it would be intriguing to see an artist like Bob embrace this for his studio work as he has already done with his live work.



yes i think its gonna happen. even better a format where WE could sound like bob and some program that searches old fu manchu books for new lyrics. bonus material should include your own set of rubbernecking dylanologists who critizice everything you do. that would be a huge seller.


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PostPosted: Sat May 19th, 2012, 00:58 GMT 
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goombay wrote:
yes i think its gonna happen. even better a format where WE could sound like bob and some program that searches old fu manchu books for new lyrics. bonus material should include your own set of rubbernecking dylanologists who critizice everything you do. that would be a huge seller.


So...you were the engineer and producer on Modern Times? Sorry to have hurt your feelings.


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PostPosted: Sat May 19th, 2012, 01:33 GMT 
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MMD wrote:
goombay wrote:
yes i think its gonna happen. even better a format where WE could sound like bob and some program that searches old fu manchu books for new lyrics. bonus material should include your own set of rubbernecking dylanologists who critizice everything you do. that would be a huge seller.


So...you were the engineer and producer on Modern Times? Sorry to have hurt your feelings.



hey my apologies, sun records/elvis, im still tryin to assimilate that lesson. thats
e-l-v-i-s? did i spell it right?

dont let me interrupt your whinefest, carry on.


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PostPosted: Sat May 19th, 2012, 06:02 GMT 
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goombay wrote:
dont let me interrupt your whinefest, carry on.

Mmmhmm. You OK? We'll try not to talk about music in any way other than to click on a "Like it!" or "Wish I got it!" button. Maybe you can make those -- you know, with your new music file system.


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PostPosted: Sat May 19th, 2012, 07:44 GMT 

Joined: Thu May 26th, 2011, 11:44 GMT
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MMD wrote:
goombay wrote:
dont let me interrupt your whinefest, carry on.

Mmmhmm. You OK? We'll try not to talk about music in any way other than to click on a "Like it!" or "Wish I got it!" button. Maybe you can make those -- you know, with your new music file system.


Young Bill Likes your post.


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PostPosted: Sat May 19th, 2012, 11:00 GMT 
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The Mighty Monkey Of Mim wrote:
Just listened to this all the way through again, and I would like to add that I don't think it's a perfect album by any means. I just don't think that of all the things to quibble about it should be Dylan's vocals, which again are for the most part some of the best of his latter day career. I do now hear what Bennyboy means about the vocal track sounding like it's been "treated" in places, but whatever it was they did, I think it was a very sympathetic and welcome treatment.

I also don't think the abounding mellowness and occasional sentimentality makes MT weak, because there are some heavier, more menacing elements to offset it and as MrJudasPriest said, it actually serves to give the album a distinct feel from its more aggressive predecessor. It does share many of the conceptual strengths of L&T, however.

There are plenty of intricacies and dynamics to the instrumental interplay if you're listening for them. I do agree some of the songs seem to go on a bit long, though ironically not some of the longest ones. NETTIE MOORE and AIN'T TALKIN' are absolutely transfixing from start to finish. WORKINGMAN'S BLUES #2 has a beautiful feel to it, and lots of great verses, but the chorus becomes a just slightly repetitive. LEVEE too, though again I really dig the groove. SPIRIT is mostly gorgeous...infectious riff, delightful melody, great song and singing, but starts off a bit rocky and the ends a bit unsatisfyingly with a drawn out but not very dynamic harmonica solo. THUNDER and TUMBLIN' wouldn't've been hurt by losing a verse or two. WHEN THE DEAL GOES DOWN and SOMEDAY BABY are just about perfect lengthwise. If there is a real Achilles' heel it's BEYOND THE HORIZON, which has slight lyrics, boring music, and the spottiest vocal on the whole album, to boot. But I don't think it brings down the whole record given what comes before and after it, especially since it's easy enough to skip.

For me the album works better while driving than sitting in one place listening. When you're on the road the repetition feels right, like the turning of the wheels and the passing of the scenery. It's also more of a late afternoon/evening into-the-night type album than a morning or broad daylight one. For me at least.

Anyway, just a few additional thoughts. Hope I'm not belaboring it.


Thanks for the time and effort, Monkey. Agree about the driving thing. That's when I listen to it most. In fact, it's where I noticed the vocal volume thing. Funny thing is, since I posted this, I've listened to it more than ever and am enjoying it like I did when it first came out.


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PostPosted: Sat May 19th, 2012, 14:31 GMT 
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MMD wrote:
goombay wrote:
dont let me interrupt your whinefest, carry on.

Mmmhmm. You OK? We'll try not to talk about music in any way other than to click on a "Like it!" or "Wish I got it!" button. Maybe you can make those -- you know, with your new music file system.



no im not, im overwhelmed about all this info about elvis and the sun sound. the placing of the mics, the 'room'.

you guys think that maybe the guitar sound sucks(like everything else on the album sucks) because bob insisted in using substandard picks? would like to know you guys thoughts on that.


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PostPosted: Sat May 19th, 2012, 14:36 GMT 
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MMD wrote:
The Mighty Monkey Of Mim wrote:
Just listened to this all the way through again, and I would like to add that I don't think it's a perfect album by any means. I just don't think that of all the things to quibble about it should be Dylan's vocals, which again are for the most part some of the best of his latter day career. I do now hear what Bennyboy means about the vocal track sounding like it's been "treated" in places, but whatever it was they did, I think it was a very sympathetic and welcome treatment.

I also don't think the abounding mellowness and occasional sentimentality makes MT weak, because there are some heavier, more menacing elements to offset it and as MrJudasPriest said, it actually serves to give the album a distinct feel from its more aggressive predecessor. It does share many of the conceptual strengths of L&T, however.

There are plenty of intricacies and dynamics to the instrumental interplay if you're listening for them. I do agree some of the songs seem to go on a bit long, though ironically not some of the longest ones. NETTIE MOORE and AIN'T TALKIN' are absolutely transfixing from start to finish. WORKINGMAN'S BLUES #2 has a beautiful feel to it, and lots of great verses, but the chorus becomes a just slightly repetitive. LEVEE too, though again I really dig the groove. SPIRIT is mostly gorgeous...infectious riff, delightful melody, great song and singing, but starts off a bit rocky and the ends a bit unsatisfyingly with a drawn out but not very dynamic harmonica solo. THUNDER and TUMBLIN' wouldn't've been hurt by losing a verse or two. WHEN THE DEAL GOES DOWN and SOMEDAY BABY are just about perfect lengthwise. If there is a real Achilles' heel it's BEYOND THE HORIZON, which has slight lyrics, boring music, and the spottiest vocal on the whole album, to boot. But I don't think it brings down the whole record given what comes before and after it, especially since it's easy enough to skip.

For me the album works better while driving than sitting in one place listening. When you're on the road the repetition feels right, like the turning of the wheels and the passing of the scenery. It's also more of a late afternoon/evening into-the-night type album than a morning or broad daylight one. For me at least.

Anyway, just a few additional thoughts. Hope I'm not belaboring it.


Thanks for the time and effort, Monkey. Agree about the driving thing. That's when I listen to it most. In fact, it's where I noticed the vocal volume thing. Funny thing is, since I posted this, I've listened to it more than ever and am enjoying it like I did when it first came out.



hey i got it! the album should have been recorded inside a car! sun studios on the move!!! :D


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PostPosted: Sun May 20th, 2012, 01:04 GMT 
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goombay wrote:
no im not, im overwhelmed about all this info about elvis and the sun sound. the placing of the mics, the 'room'.

you guys think that maybe the guitar sound sucks(like everything else on the album sucks) because bob insisted in using substandard picks? would like to know you guys thoughts on that.


Clever boy! You'll shout everyone quiet. Then you'll win. Yay!


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PostPosted: Sun May 20th, 2012, 01:13 GMT 
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MMD wrote:
goombay wrote:
no im not, im overwhelmed about all this info about elvis and the sun sound. the placing of the mics, the 'room'.

you guys think that maybe the guitar sound sucks(like everything else on the album sucks) because bob insisted in using substandard picks? would like to know you guys thoughts on that.


Clever boy! You'll shout everyone quiet. Then you'll win. Yay!



what do i win?


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PostPosted: Sun May 20th, 2012, 01:19 GMT 
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goombay wrote:
what do i win?

I dunno. What do you normally win?


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PostPosted: Sun May 20th, 2012, 01:21 GMT 
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MMD wrote:
goombay wrote:
what do i win?

I dunno. What do you normally win?

it will just be a moral (?) victory if that.


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PostPosted: Sun May 20th, 2012, 01:26 GMT 
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MMD wrote:
goombay wrote:
what do i win?

I dunno. What do you normally win?


when i was much younger(long time ago) i won a radio contest where you would win all the albums i could name in 15 seconds. when i went to the radio station they took me to a room and was told to pick any albums from a box of promotional records. mostly crosby and nash records. i had asked for stuff like the velvet underground and scott walker. there was a big hullablloo there and then. got most of them but never got the scott walker so if i get to win anything id go with scotts Tilt.
( no jack white or mark lannegan record wil be accepted)


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PostPosted: Sun May 20th, 2012, 01:30 GMT 
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oldmenu wrote:
it will just be a moral (?) victory if that.

There is a lot freighted in that question mark, goombay. Maybe you could have some quiet time and think through that. Or you could keep shooting for a last word here.


Last edited by MMD on Sun May 20th, 2012, 01:43 GMT, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun May 20th, 2012, 01:39 GMT 
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MMD wrote:
goombay wrote:
it will just be a moral (?) victory if that.

There is a lot freighted in that question mark, goombay. Maybe you could have some quiet time and think through that. Or you could keep shooting for a last word here.



a lot freighted? like air freight? quiet time? like walking out in the woods and meditate?
the meditation part will have to wait until i finish listening to os mutantes technicolor.


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PostPosted: Sun May 20th, 2012, 01:41 GMT 
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goombay wrote:

a lot freighted? like air freight? quiet time? like walking out in the woods and meditate?
the meditation part will have to wait until i finish listening to os mutantes technicolor.

OK. Good. You keep working on those words and I'll come by and check on you again later.


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PostPosted: Sun May 20th, 2012, 01:51 GMT 
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MMD wrote:
goombay wrote:

a lot freighted? like air freight? quiet time? like walking out in the woods and meditate?
the meditation part will have to wait until i finish listening to os mutantes technicolor.

OK. Good. You keep working on those words and I'll come by and check on you again later.


cool. by the time you get back ill hopefully know all about punching in vocals and mic placement, do some googlin so you guys wont have to talk down to me.


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PostPosted: Sun May 20th, 2012, 03:02 GMT 
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goombay wrote:

all the frustrated musicians out there who obviously are SOO much talented than he is and should be rich and famous but are living off a chick, or manning the checkout lounge at the beer joint.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun May 20th, 2012, 03:41 GMT 
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goombay wrote:
cool. by the time you get back ill hopefully know all about punching in vocals and mic placement, do some googlin so you guys wont have to talk down to me.


Alright, so I have been pretty clear that I don't think MT sucks. I really try not to do that. All musicians are more talented than me and I respect that. I am only here in this pissing match with you because you almost immediately went nasty. You talked down at everyone for having the gall to talk about the sound of the album and took on a superior tone. I just don't like that kind of anti-discussion crap on a discussion forum. So, let other people talk about stuff without telling them they're are idiots for talking. It's not like the problem is that you have a contrary opinion. You are against others voicing theirs.

For all I know, you are Bob Dylan. Maybe you are the actual engineer on the album. Still, don't be nasty.

I do appreciate that at least you got funnier as the thing went on.

That is all. Thank you.


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PostPosted: Sun May 20th, 2012, 04:03 GMT 
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MMD wrote:
goombay wrote:
cool. by the time you get back ill hopefully know all about punching in vocals and mic placement, do some googlin so you guys wont have to talk down to me.


Alright, so I have been pretty clear that I don't think MT sucks. I really try not to do that. All musicians are more talented than me and I respect that. I am only here in this pissing match with you because you almost immediately went nasty. You talked down at everyone for having the gall to talk about the sound of the album and took on a superior tone. I just don't like that kind of anti-discussion crap on a discussion forum. So, let other people talk about stuff without telling them they're are idiots for talking. It's not like the problem is that you have a contrary opinion. You are against others voicing theirs.

For all I know, you are Bob Dylan. Maybe you are the actual engineer on the album. Still, don't be nasty.

I do appreciate that at least you got funnier as the thing went on.

That is all. Thank you.




aint nothin wrong with this thread, its got a lotta pizzaz. any thread where anything bob does is called 'polished turd' im gonna jump in. im on the record as being against the anti bob propaganda.

anyways like kinky friedman once told me, a big LASSO to you. and young bill too.
i gotta go my cd of bob anaheim 7-26-87 is skipping, gotta fix it, i love that tamborine man.


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