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PostPosted: Wed May 30th, 2012, 15:08 GMT 
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quote:
Blowin In The Wind reformatted the old black spirituals for the boomer generation and the new left movement of the time. Subterranean Homesick Blues took Chuck Berry and melded it with beat poetry. All through Dylan's career this has been a driving force.

So when 2001 rolls around he lays all the cards on the table. Instead of using his influences to make great work he makes great work about his influences. I get why this seems a bit by-the-numbers for people but to me it's the ultimate slice of Bob Dylan. It's almost like the Bob Dylan album about Bob Dylan.[/quote]

Yes. I agree with the above. He's always dipped into the big pool, stolen from the best if you will. Nothing changed


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PostPosted: Wed May 30th, 2012, 23:10 GMT 
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listen to both albums alot, but i prefer love and theft.


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PostPosted: Thu May 31st, 2012, 06:05 GMT 
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[quote="ballynally"] even comparing it to the album after 'oh mercy', with which i concur wasnt very good.quote]

:?: That is when I knew to stop reading yer post.
Cheers,
Isaac


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PostPosted: Mon June 4th, 2012, 01:19 GMT 
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MMD wrote:
boiledgutsofbirds wrote:
This is why Love and Theft is the definitive Dylan album for me.

The Band have described the nature of the basement tapes sessions where Bob would pull a new folk song out of his ass constantly. They were stunned by his almost unnatural ability to recall the American folk canon. And when push comes to shove and I have to identify a singular driving force behind Dylan's genius, it's his near encyclopedic knowledge of the American music tradition. He goes into it in detail in Chroniclesn and it's evident throughout his entire career. This is why, despite his literary skill, he will always be a musician and not a poet.

Blowin In The Wind reformatted the old black spirituals for the boomer generation and the new left movement of the time. Subterranean Homesick Blues took Chuck Berry and melded it with beat poetry. All through Dylan's career this has been a driving force.

So when 2001 rolls around he lays all the cards on the table. Instead of using his influences to make great work he makes great work about his influences. I get why this seems a bit by-the-numbers for people but to me it's the ultimate slice of Bob Dylan. It's almost like the Bob Dylan album about Bob Dylan.


Interesting point, re poet/musician. And also: Dylan album about Dylan. That would be odd if he was working that self-referentially. Worth thinking through.


Actually, when you think about it, Love and Theft is like a modern Self Portrait. Just executed much better.


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PostPosted: Mon June 4th, 2012, 01:24 GMT 
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Daniel wrote:
listen to both albums alot, but i prefer love and theft.


"Love And Theft, ain't much." - Randy Newman.

Dylan needs to get out from under the microscope. Spends too much time in a sea of postmen, tailors, and funky Broadway.


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PostPosted: Mon June 4th, 2012, 01:31 GMT 

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The MEZ listens to Love & Theft more often. I don't care all that much with the Lanois swampy production so many praise. Both are fantastic though along with Modern Times - MEZ


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PostPosted: Mon June 4th, 2012, 01:33 GMT 
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Ain't Talkin' wrote:
Daniel wrote:
listen to both albums alot, but i prefer love and theft.


"Love And Theft, ain't much." - Randy Newman.

Dylan needs to get out from under the microscope. Spends too much time in a sea of postmen, tailors, and funky Broadway.

I think Randy Newman once dismissed every Dylan album except for the first two or so.


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PostPosted: Mon June 4th, 2012, 07:53 GMT 
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TyCobb wrote:
ballynally wrote:
even comparing it to the album after 'oh mercy', with which i concur wasnt very good.quote]

:?: That is when I knew to stop reading yer post.
Cheers,
Isaac


Good for you! But, why do you have to tell us? i meant 'under the red sky' btw, just in case you thought i meant 'Oh, Mercy', which i think is a rather good record. :)


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PostPosted: Mon June 4th, 2012, 22:05 GMT 

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Location: Arezzo, Tuscany, Italy.
Love & Theft for verve and vitality and because that was so unexpected after the predictably leaden TOOM (the kind of album you expect D to make especially with Lanois in the driving seat)... BTW: Under The Red Sky has some great moments. I love the song UTRS, but he sings it so badly on record compared to live performance.


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PostPosted: Thu June 7th, 2012, 16:22 GMT 
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In the sixties Bob wrote songs that were so unique and profound. For me, he sits outside the realm of all his peers from this era. With "L&T" the impact is not as dramatic because songwriting possibilities (thanks to Bob's influence) have been explored and exploited. Time Out Of Mind, while a brilliant album and still at the top of the heap, does not (for me) really seem to explore any new style or writing technique. That doesn't take away from it's greatness, but with "L&T" I feel Bob once again delves into uncharted territory.

I give the edge to "L&T" and consider it to be one of his finest albums, almost on par with the ones generally recognized as his greatest, BIABH, BoB, HWY61, BOTT, etc.


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PostPosted: Fri June 8th, 2012, 07:45 GMT 
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raging_glory wrote:
In the sixties Bob wrote songs that were so unique and profound. For me, he sits outside the realm of all his peers from this era. With "L&T" the impact is not as dramatic because songwriting possibilities (thanks to Bob's influence) have been explored and exploited. Time Out Of Mind, while a brilliant album and still at the top of the heap, does not (for me) really seem to explore any new style or writing technique. That doesn't take away from it's greatness, but with "L&T" I feel Bob once again delves into uncharted territory.

I give the edge to "L&T" and consider it to be one of his finest albums, almost on par with the ones generally recognized as his greatest, BIABH, BoB, HWY61, BOTT, etc.


I wonder if there is something to be said for this theory:
Love and Theft -- like the earliest folk records, and like the Basement Tapes-John Wesley Harding records, and like the Christian records, and the 90s return to folk -- mark a turn by Dylan away from main stream pop-rock and into a kind of highly stylized exploration.

Love and Theft is a (re)turn to Old Weird America and its music as a primary mode of making (and thinking) about music.

I know that's what, ultimately, makes the album so enjoyable for me, and why its borrowings, references, allusions seem natural and insightful, even funny or witty, sometimes.

I like Time Out of Mind fine. Lots of good stuff, but LT is stylized (costumes and all) and so seems more coherent, more singular than the albums of the 20 previous years.

Easy to poke holes in this by saying Dylan has always referred back to the tradition. But, it's pretty clear that with LT we see a formalization of what started in the GAIBTY and WGW records. Dylan as Vaudeville performer, as 19th CE minstrel. I mean he even got the outfit for it and the little thin mustaches.

I think this is why LT stands above TOOM. It has stylistic force.

And I imagine it's why some people really don't like this whole period. The weird song lyrics (the dialogue with the old songs and culture) and the whole Vaudeville put-on may rub them the wrong way. There's also, of course, the broken-ass voice by the time we get to 2006 or so.

It's certainly THE style of his albums since LT.

And finally: at what point do we demarcate the break to the ModBob epoch? with TOOM or LT? Not Oh Mercy, right? that's MidBob, surely.


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