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PostPosted: Mon April 23rd, 2012, 21:58 GMT 
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elmer wrote:
By Wilentz’ own admission: “Since 2001, he has served as historian-in-residence at Dylan’s official Website, http://www.bobdylan.com.” (source: Wilentz’s website) In the days of European royalty, they were called court historians. And we all know who they worked for and it wasn't the truth.

In the real world that makes him a shill. He’s in Bob’s pocket so to speak. As Bob’s lapdog, he is the equivalent of a p.r. hack for British Petroleum speaking about the oil spill a few years ago. And I’m sure you believed them. Oh but of course they would make decisions with no regard to who was paying them or giving them fancy titles. At least in your world.

As for me i prefer my historians to be purer than caesar's wife.

I find your analogy to Sony fatuous and without merit.


Actually you're the one with an empty argument, unless you can cite gross inaccuracies from a text that I'm guessing you haven't read. Until you can criticize his substance, your assessment of his character means Jack sh*t.


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PostPosted: Mon April 23rd, 2012, 22:07 GMT 
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Dylan Ego you have to pick up World Gone Wrong. Its definitely in the top 5 Dylan albums in my opinion. and its certainly superior to Good as i been to you. Do it!


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PostPosted: Mon April 23rd, 2012, 22:11 GMT 
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^^^^
Finally someone who agrees with me on this. :)


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PostPosted: Mon April 23rd, 2012, 23:11 GMT 

Joined: Thu September 29th, 2011, 16:21 GMT
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Troubadour64 wrote:
elmer wrote:
By Wilentz’ own admission: “Since 2001, he has served as historian-in-residence at Dylan’s official Website, http://www.bobdylan.com.” (source: Wilentz’s website) In the days of European royalty, they were called court historians. And we all know who they worked for and it wasn't the truth.

In the real world that makes him a shill. He’s in Bob’s pocket so to speak. As Bob’s lapdog, he is the equivalent of a p.r. hack for British Petroleum speaking about the oil spill a few years ago. And I’m sure you believed them. Oh but of course they would make decisions with no regard to who was paying them or giving them fancy titles. At least in your world.

As for me i prefer my historians to be purer than caesar's wife.

I find your analogy to Sony fatuous and without merit.


Actually you're the one with an empty argument, unless you can cite gross inaccuracies from a text that I'm guessing you haven't read. Until you can criticize his substance, your assessment of his character means Jack sh*t.


you just don't get it. you must be young. its not about gross inaccuracies, it's about slant.

again, I quote the doctor: "history is only so much hired bullshit" and every man has his price

i am neither bootlicker nor lickspittle nor consumer of doctrine or dogma.


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PostPosted: Tue April 24th, 2012, 00:16 GMT 

Joined: Thu August 30th, 2007, 22:44 GMT
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There is no such thing as history without a slant. History is interpretation, no matter who's doing the interpreting.


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PostPosted: Tue April 24th, 2012, 08:33 GMT 
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stephenoxford wrote:
Covers... and shameless lifts from other artists interpretations: Paul Brady, Nic Jones....


Not so sure about "shameless lifts", Stephen. (This was before the Love and Theft era of out and out rip offs). Dylan obviously learned these tunes from Brady/Jones but he did not copy them directly. Nic Jones' Canada-e-io is a thing of rare beauty, but it is actally a very different animal compared to Dylan's version. The guitar playing is totally different. In the case of Arthur McBride I'm a little bit more inclined to agree, but still no "straight copy". But anyway, anyone who has not heard the great, great Nic Jones should go out and buy his albums right away. You won't regret it.


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PostPosted: Tue April 24th, 2012, 10:12 GMT 

Joined: Thu August 30th, 2007, 22:44 GMT
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P.Jekk wrote:
anyone who has not heard the great, great Nic Jones should go out and buy his albums right away. You won't regret it.

Heartily seconded! A true shame the man's career was prematurely ended by severe injuries sustained in a car accident, and all the more reason (as if more were needed) to buy what little recorded material his talent produced while he was still able.


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PostPosted: Wed April 25th, 2012, 14:00 GMT 
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The Mighty Monkey Of Mim wrote:
There is no such thing as history without a slant. History is interpretation, no matter who's doing the interpreting.


finally a breathe of reasonable fresh air.

Elmer, let's just say I'm old enough to know better than to fight with children, and to avoid obstinacy. can you say the same?


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PostPosted: Wed April 25th, 2012, 14:19 GMT 

Joined: Thu September 29th, 2011, 16:21 GMT
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Troubadour64 wrote:
The Mighty Monkey Of Mim wrote:
There is no such thing as history without a slant. History is interpretation, no matter who's doing the interpreting.


finally a breathe of reasonable fresh air.

Elmer, let's just say I'm old enough to know better than to fight with children, and to avoid obstinacy. can you say the same?


didn't i quote the doctor to the same effect: history is only so much hired bullshhit? sure it's interpretation but i would be much less inclined to believe someone who is involved in a potential conflict of interest than one without similar strings attached. all i'm saying.

and i too have fought abstinency all my life.

p.s. i never give in when i'm right. that would be surrendering to the ignoroids and waterheads and i am neither bootlicker nor lickspiittle. i am elmer free man.


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PostPosted: Wed April 25th, 2012, 15:30 GMT 
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the first part i'll take - history is hired bullshit. the answer is not to turn a blind eye, but to take a critical eye. and not be critical of those willing to examine what you are afraid to. i think we are resolved.

i'm guessing that was a clever pun, in which case i'll share a laugh with you, but i did mean obstinacy. it's a word. cheers.


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PostPosted: Wed April 25th, 2012, 16:36 GMT 
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Penguin Eggs (mentioned with regard to Nic Jones) is possibly a reference to the punchline of Apsley Cherry Gerrard's book 'The Worst Journey In The World' where he explains his motive behind the, in some cases fatal, trip to the Antarctic he made with Scott - strange that it should turn up in a song about Canada, nearer the Arctic by a long way.... I'd be interested to know if Stephen Oxford made the connection too, I suspect he will have done.... have I missed something important here? If someone could join the dots..... it'd be interesting at least!

Of the two Lps I think Blood in My Eyes is the more approachable but I'm not sure it is the better.... I never tire of listening to either. That some of his finest music is 'covers' should come as no surprise to people to understand how folk music comes to be.... his own work is now pretty much 'folk music' too, it's just that the folk are global and we (just about) know the source....


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