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 Post subject: Re: Union Sundown
PostPosted: Sat May 5th, 2012, 18:57 GMT 
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Jonnie Falafel wrote:
Context is all with Infidels. "patriotism is the last refuge..." followed the Zionist fervour of the ironically titled Neighbourhood Bully , followed by the quasi feminist (wrong-headed IMO) Licence To Kill ... the songs tell stories from multiple perspective and there's almost an internal commentary going on.

And one can never under-estimate the role the Reagan years played in the way this album came about... Reagan, anti-abortion, patriotic right wing, help the rich get richer, "Christian" president (that never went to church and took advice from a palm reader? :shock: )... even the title, Infidels says something about the times and Reagan's administration, if not the entire culture.

And all the while this was going on, televangelists Pat Robertson and Jerry Fahlwell were pronouncing God's blessings upon America while Reagan and his policies destroyed the moral fiber and economic future of a nation. Reagan's policies accelerated the rate at which unions were destroyed, jobs were sent outside the country and the gap between rich and poor grew in the United States... and according to Robertson and Fahlwell, two persons who financially benefitted during these years by fleecing their "flocks", supported Reagan as God's instrument to make America great once again. False prophets, they were.

Infidels... indeed.


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 Post subject: Re: Union Sundown
PostPosted: Sat May 5th, 2012, 20:16 GMT 

Joined: Sun August 30th, 2009, 08:41 GMT
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Untrodden Path wrote:
arthurprecarious wrote:
Sorry - couldn't describe it as "gigantic" - "Neighbourhood Bully" is a bit dodgy and a terrible lumpen arrangement, "Union Sundown" is poor, "Man of Peace" was better when played live, again a poor arrangement. "License to Kill" was average at best. Some great stuff on it but could have been so much better. Similarly, the preceeding album "Shot of Love" could have been great with some swapping around and cutting.

Those four words "What might have been" apply here.
All of that is even more true of the stuff he was playing 20 years before... the advantage here is that with the 20 years experience he was closer to getting it "right" the first time.

One thing is indisputable... the world is a better place because of these songs.


As sworn enemies Mr Path even if I agreed with you i'd have to disagree with you!! My main beef is that the arrangements are dull and leaden for the most part and it coulkd have been so much better. Just played "Blind Willie McTell" for my son for the first time and he was pretty impressed.


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 Post subject: Re: Union Sundown
PostPosted: Sat May 5th, 2012, 20:29 GMT 
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Whatever we think of the tracks left off Infidels, I think we can agree that he should have toured with The Plugz (who backed him on Letterman) instead of the classic rock snoozefest that gave him such generic backup on the 1984 tour. Talk about "what might have been"!!

As to the topic-yes, the song is quite timely today. The 1992 versions rock but he seemed ot be singing dummy lyrics and/or repeating what random lines he could remember - it's hard to tell the way he slurs. The song could certainly make a nice comeback in 2012.


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 Post subject: Re: Union Sundown
PostPosted: Sat May 5th, 2012, 22:26 GMT 

Joined: Mon May 10th, 2010, 19:30 GMT
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Love it. great song. Awesome manor, tone and words. Music and voice are cool. Wish he did it well live.. hasn't yet. but im sure he could do it great.


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 Post subject: Re: Union Sundown
PostPosted: Sat May 5th, 2012, 23:45 GMT 
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arthurprecarious wrote:
Untrodden Path wrote:
Sorry - couldn't describe it as "gigantic" - "Neighbourhood Bully" is a bit dodgy and a terrible lumpen arrangement, "Union Sundown" is poor, "Man of Peace" was better when played live, again a poor arrangement. "License to Kill" was average at best. Some great stuff on it but could have been so much better. Similarly, the preceeding album "Shot of Love" could have been great with some swapping around and cutting.

Those four words "What might have been" apply here.
All of that is even more true of the stuff he was playing 20 years before... the advantage here is that with the 20 years experience he was closer to getting it "right" the first time.

One thing is indisputable... the world is a better place because of these songs.

arthurprecarious wrote:
As sworn enemies Mr Path even if I agreed with you i'd have to disagree with you!! My main beef is that the arrangements are dull and leaden for the most part and it coulkd have been so much better. Just played "Blind Willie McTell" for my son for the first time and he was pretty impressed.
This could be said (and would be true) of every song he recorded until Time Out of Mind, the NET itself being a living testimony of his unlimited ability to improve upon his past works.

And sworn enemies? When did this happen? I'm always the last to know... :(

If its not too late I'll admit that I actually like you a lot. Playing Blind Willie McTell for you son is pretty cool. Have you ever tried They Killed Him? Maybe you could teach him the chilren's choir part. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Union Sundown
PostPosted: Sat May 5th, 2012, 23:53 GMT 
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I always thought Union Sundown was an underrated song off of Infidels, I've always enjoyed the song a good bit.


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 Post subject: Re: Union Sundown
PostPosted: Sun May 6th, 2012, 01:43 GMT 
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Untrodden Path wrote:
And all the while this was going on, televangelists Pat Robertson and Jerry Fahlwell were pronouncing God's blessings upon America while Reagan and his policies destroyed the moral fiber and economic future of a nation. Reagan's policies accelerated the rate at which unions were destroyed, jobs were sent outside the country and the gap between rich and poor grew in the United States... and according to Robertson and Fahlwell, two persons who financially benefitted during these years by fleecing their "flocks", supported Reagan as God's instrument to make America great once again. False prophets, they were.

Infidels... indeed.


This past week from Pat Robertson....

"I don’t care what the liberals have to say about this, America started as a Christian nation, it didn’t start as a heathen nation, it belongs to Jesus Christ, it’s his, it’s his country...What we need to do on a day like this is to reaffirm his claim over this land."


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 Post subject: Re: Union Sundown
PostPosted: Sun May 6th, 2012, 02:43 GMT 
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I think Pat may have mis-spoken. In the earliest days, the Native Americans were not Christian and I think by Pat's standards would be "heathen". I'm not sure when it belonged to Jesus Christ... was it during the genocide committed against the Native Americans by the good Christian forefathers? Or was it during the enslavement and genocide of Africans? Maybe it was the denial of voting rights and full participation of women and ethnic minorities?

There appears to be a push today to return America to the yesteryear that exists in the imagination of people like Robertson... its in the "English speaking only" push, the zenophobic anti-immigration policies of Arizona, Alabama, and a host of other states proudly following suit. And many of those leading the charge proclaim their faith in Jesus and Christian values loud and long.

He pushes fake morals... which is not Union Sundown... but true nonetheless.


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 Post subject: Re: Union Sundown
PostPosted: Sun May 6th, 2012, 03:09 GMT 
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Untrodden Path wrote:
Maybe it was the denial of voting rights and full participation of women and ethnic minorities?


"The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians." –Pat Robertson

I always thought he was possibly insane. It blows my mind anyone listens to him for anything beyond entertainment.

"God spoke to me through a word of prophecy in May 1968, and said, ‘I have chosen you to usher in the coming of My Son."

OK. Son of Sam.

But I'm pushing this off topic I guess--The Union Sundown from San Jose 1992 is about as good as the NET has to offer I think--the vocals are all over the place, though (which I kinda like, but it does sound awfully sloppy).


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 Post subject: Re: Union Sundown
PostPosted: Sun May 6th, 2012, 03:47 GMT 
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John B. Stetson wrote:
"The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians." –Pat Robertson

WTF? He actually said this and wasn't run out of town?

Anyway, I should hate "Union Sundown", as Bob + Macro-Economics does not seem good bedfellows, but instead I quite like this song. It's a good, ragged rock song, a nice performance, and the lyric rings true to say the least.

I wonder if Bob is writing/singing as "himself" here, or if he imagined another character stating those words.

(The stinkers on Infidels are "Man of Peace" and "Neighborhood Bully", which are atrocious.)


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 Post subject: Re: Union Sundown
PostPosted: Sun May 6th, 2012, 03:51 GMT 
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didn't he also blame feminists & gays for 9/11? or was that Falwell?


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 Post subject: Re: Union Sundown
PostPosted: Sun May 6th, 2012, 08:55 GMT 

Joined: Sun August 30th, 2009, 08:41 GMT
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arthurprecarious wrote:
As sworn enemies Mr Path even if I agreed with you i'd have to disagree with you!! My main beef is that the arrangements are dull and leaden for the most part and it coulkd have been so much better. Just played "Blind Willie McTell" for my son for the first time and he was pretty impressed.
This could be said (and would be true) of every song he recorded until Time Out of Mind, the NET itself being a living testimony of his unlimited ability to improve upon his past works.

And sworn enemies? When did this happen? I'm always the last to know... :(

If its not too late I'll admit that I actually like you a lot. Playing Blind Willie McTell for you son is pretty cool. Have you ever tried They Killed Him? Maybe you could teach him the chilren's choir part. 8)[/quote]

Aahh - just joshing with you UP. I won't agree about the supremacy of the NET because for me the NET has been downhill since 2000. Can't agree either about TOOM. For me, it's Bob's last decent record, and I enjoy both the arrangements and production. The only song (from TOOM) that is constantly great on the NET is "Not Dark Yet".


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 Post subject: Re: Union Sundown
PostPosted: Sun May 6th, 2012, 11:14 GMT 
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panther wrote:
John B. Stetson wrote:
"The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians." –Pat Robertson

WTF? He actually said this and wasn't run out of town?

(The stinkers on Infidels are "Man of Peace" and "Neighborhood Bully", which are atrocious.)
Sadly, with the viewers he appeals to, statements like that are viewed not only as true but courageous... From those like minded, it keeps the donations to his ministry coming in.

I feel differently about both Man of Peace and Neighborhood Bully. A common perception concerning the rise of the Anti-Christ in many Christian circles (Vineyard Fellowship included) was that when the Anti-Christ rose to power, he would not come as a war monger but a man of peace. Bob just put it to music. Neighborhood Bully is Bob at his political best and to some extent reminds me of Jesus with the ability to piss off powers on the left and right with equal fervor... though admittedly, he's angered the political conservative more often the he has angered the left.
Giada wrote:
didn't he also blame feminists & gays for 9/11? or was that Falwell?
Fahlwell and Robertson were interviewed together after 9/11 and I clearly remember the comment about the event being God's judgment on America for accepting gays and lesbians... if they included feminists (which would have been par for the course) I missed that part.

For me, it begs the question, if God has such a distaste for gays and lesbians, why haven't such catastrophes been reigning down on other nations who have historically been more tolerant? Why did it happen in 2001 instead of 1961? Or 1981? Or any other date?

Ah, but we digress... Union Sundown should be played at every Obama rally in the election cycle whenever he speaks about the prospects of a Romney presidency. Romney as president will accelerate job loss, the gap between the rich and the poor, and the economic/financial destruction that started under George W Bush.

But that's a discussion for the Political World part of the forum.

I happen to like Union Sundown very much.


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