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Do Europeans Appreciate Bob Dylan More Than Americans?
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Author:  Johanna Parker [ Sat March 10th, 2012, 13:28 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Europeans Appreciate Bob Dylan More Than Americans?

:lol:

Author:  Dylaned [ Sat March 10th, 2012, 13:42 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Europeans Appreciate Bob Dylan More Than Americans?

Yes, I do :lol:

Author:  Still Go Barefoot [ Sat March 10th, 2012, 17:13 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Europeans Appreciate Bob Dylan More Than Americans?

Dylan fans appreciate Bob Dylan more than the general public.

Author:  Trev [ Sun March 11th, 2012, 00:08 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Europeans Appreciate Bob Dylan More Than Americans?

Ah, I just want to see him in New York, to make the comparison.

Author:  stringjamjazz [ Sun March 11th, 2012, 00:37 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Europeans Appreciate Bob Dylan More Than Americans?

I'm reading Bauldie's chronology at the back of Oh No! Not Another Bob Dylan Book and there's evidence that, at least for the first decade, the response was stronger in the UK. He shows highest chart position and number of weeks charting for each album. Except for H61R, which is the only American #1, all the other albums charted higher in the UK. Most were #1 in the UK and not here. Early on, the weeks on the chart were much longer in England too. With Planet Waves, this trend flips and stays flipped through Infidels. At that point, well - I haven't read any further yet.

Author:  Juca [ Sun March 11th, 2012, 16:42 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Europeans Appreciate Bob Dylan More Than Americans?

I suppose if i was American, I will do like American.

Author:  henrypussycat [ Sun March 11th, 2012, 17:30 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Europeans Appreciate Bob Dylan More Than Americans?

elmer wrote:
compulsion is neither connection nor comprehension. compulsion is merely what it is


falls short of representation you imply?

Author:  Jimmy1982 [ Sun March 11th, 2012, 17:53 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Europeans Appreciate Bob Dylan More Than Americans?

My brother is married to an American and I've met and spoken to a number of our trans-atlantic cousins over the years and it's amazing how little they know about American music. They all love our shite like Pink Floyd and The Who but when it comes to Dylan or blues or proper country music they ain't got a clue. The one American band they all appear to love are Matchbox Twenty. The amount of Americans who have told me that Rob Thomas is the greatest songwriter ever is unbelievable. Music conversation ceases as soon as I'm confronted with things like this.

Author:  Drake [ Sun March 11th, 2012, 18:50 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Europeans Appreciate Bob Dylan More Than Americans?

Jimmy1982 wrote:
My brother is married to an American and I've met and spoken to a number of our trans-atlantic cousins over the years and it's amazing how little they know about American music. They all love our shite like Pink Floyd and The Who but when it comes to Dylan or blues or proper country music they ain't got a clue. The one American band they all appear to love are Matchbox Twenty. The amount of Americans who have told me that Rob Thomas is the greatest songwriter ever is unbelievable. Music conversation ceases as soon as I'm confronted with things like this.


This says more about your brother and his wife.

The Nobel is a European prize. Where's Bob's Nobel?
The longer you don't give it to him, the more you devalue your own award (and the more ridiculous this argument is).

If we're going to generalize for the sake of an argument, what I've noted is some Europeans develop a Dylan-thing like they would about collecting tulip bulbs, Hummel figurines, or their pet 'budgies.' Oh, sure they fixate and dote and stroke their own sense of Dylan-ology and know intricacies about sources. It's their merit badge in American cultural understanding. It's not as déclassé as McDonalds or DIsney. Dylan-ology has consistently held its cultural cache. Being Dylan-hip is like cultural gold bouillon to them ,they won't be left in ten years holding a worthless attachment to something like Huey Lewis, Dylan is a good and safe investment.

Here's the thing, their encyclopedic knowledge lacks any passion, any blood, what we get from just being American. Uncle Bob. He can piss us off, disappoint, leave us hanging, and then surprise and delight us again and again. He's as much a part of America as the Mississippi. We don't exactly take him for granted, we've just learned to accept him, like part of the family. "I'd gotten in the door, and from then on there was nothing anyone could do about it." Absolutely. He came to stay one day and never left, just like a stray relative.

From Hollywood to Washington DC from New York City to Hibbing Minnesota. From Woodstock to Harvard Square, Dylan is honored, remembered and feted on nearly a daily basis. The local daily paper in Boston has a column about what's going on, and they're always running this or that event that has a Dylan theme, honor, special or movie. More than once they've asked, "If you're wondering does Dylan idolatry ever take a day off? Clearly no!"

Author:  Jimmy1982 [ Sun March 11th, 2012, 19:00 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Europeans Appreciate Bob Dylan More Than Americans?

''The Nobel is a European prize. Where's Bob's Nobel?
The longer you don't give it to him, the more you devalue your own award (and the more ridiculous this argument is)''

Eh?? I'm new here so I can't tell if thats part of your humour

Author:  Drake [ Sun March 11th, 2012, 22:35 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Europeans Appreciate Bob Dylan More Than Americans?

When you use industrial glue or adhesives, Jimmy, you should remember to either keep the windows open or apply in a widely-ventilated area.

Author:  Still Go Barefoot [ Sun March 11th, 2012, 22:59 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Europeans Appreciate Bob Dylan More Than Americans?

Drake wrote:
When you use industrial glue or adhesives, Jimmy, you should remember to either keep the windows open or apply in a widely-ventilated area.

Yeah, Jimmy, or else you might start liking Matchbox 20 and Rob Thomas.

Author:  chrome horse [ Sun March 11th, 2012, 23:22 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Europeans Appreciate Bob Dylan More Than Americans?

Drake wrote:
This says more about your brother and his wife.

The Nobel is a European prize. Where's Bob's Nobel?
The longer you don't give it to him, the more you devalue your own award (and the more ridiculous this argument is).

If we're going to generalize for the sake of an argument, what I've noted is some Europeans develop a Dylan-thing like they would about collecting tulip bulbs, Hummel figurines, or their pet 'budgies.' Oh, sure they fixate and dote and stroke their own sense of Dylan-ology and know intricacies about sources. It's their merit badge in American cultural understanding. It's not as déclassé as McDonalds or DIsney. Dylan-ology has consistently held its cultural cache. Being Dylan-hip is like cultural gold bouillon to them ,they won't be left in ten years holding a worthless attachment to something like Huey Lewis, Dylan is a good and safe investment.

Here's the thing, their encyclopedic knowledge lacks any passion, any blood, what we get from just being American. Uncle Bob. He can piss us off, disappoint, leave us hanging, and then surprise and delight us again and again. He's as much a part of America as the Mississippi. We don't exactly take him for granted, we've just learned to accept him, like part of the family. "I'd gotten in the door, and from then on there was nothing anyone could do about it." Absolutely. He came to stay one day and never left, just like a stray relative.

From Hollywood to Washington DC from New York City to Hibbing Minnesota. From Woodstock to Harvard Square, Dylan is honored, remembered and feted on nearly a daily basis. The local daily paper in Boston has a column about what's going on, and they're always running this or that event that has a Dylan theme, honor, special or movie. More than once they've asked, "If you're wondering does Dylan idolatry ever take a day off? Clearly no!"
[/quote]

Excellent. A fellow bay stater sticking up for the home front. Very well said! The Dylan references in the media are ample and steady. Talk radio czar, and Dylan fan, Don Imus, has a segment with his wife and another blonde. That part of the show is "Blonde on Blonde".

I do agree also that some of those across the pond only see the luster, and little of the depth. But, then, there's those types here too.

Author:  MarianoR [ Sun March 11th, 2012, 23:49 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Europeans Appreciate Bob Dylan More Than Americans?

well here in portugal bob is not that known... or at least people are not that much into him. but i believe that what make us feel bob the way we do is beyond countries, it's that connection we make to a certain sound, and then it just dont matter if english is our first language or not, or if his music is known in your country or not. because it's a personal thing.
that said, i do believe that to us in europe bob has just the exact amount of american traditionalism in his image and art that mixed with his genius make us go nuts. :D

Author:  chrome horse [ Sun March 11th, 2012, 23:57 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Europeans Appreciate Bob Dylan More Than Americans?

MarianoR wrote:
that said, i do believe that to us in europe bob has just the exact amount of american traditionalism in his image and art that mixed with his genius make us go nuts. :D


El perfecto mon amis! Excellent thumbnail summary! You could pitch movie scripts.

Author:  topu [ Tue March 13th, 2012, 14:53 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Europeans Appreciate Bob Dylan More Than Americans?

Johanna Parker wrote:
Drake wrote:
Here's the thing, their encyclopedic knowledge lacks any passion, any blood, what we get from just being American. Uncle Bob. He can piss us off, disappoint, leave us hanging, and then surprise and delight us again and again. He's as much a part of America as the Mississippi. We don't exactly take him for granted, we've just learned to accept him, like part of the family. "I'd gotten in the door, and from then on there was nothing anyone could do about it." Absolutely. He came to stay one day and never left, just like a stray relative.


People do not get to chose the place and time of their birth. Just because you happen to be born in the US doesn't mean you have any part in making Bob what he is, nor have any possessive claims to him. Like that announcer said, "You know him, he's yours." That's bullshit. He doesn't belong exclusively to any one group of people, be they folk music nerds or US Americans. He found acceptance, success, admiration, acclaim, you name it, in the wider world. Contrary to popular believe, the wider world does exist. Lots of what makes up your culture has roots in Europe. You don't have to go that far back in history to find Bob's European roots. His art is universal enough to appeal to people in many places in the world, and that's a great thing to achieve. You make it seem like Europe is full of Michael Gray's and Clinton Heylin's. Fans and followers come in various shapes and forms. There are lots of tourgoers here, lots of collectors, lots of people with an artistic approach of whatever kind. Yes, writers and scholars, too. How does it matter who does the research? Nobody forces you to read it. As if you were born with a knowledge of his influences....

Author:  henrypussycat [ Tue March 13th, 2012, 15:51 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Europeans Appreciate Bob Dylan More Than Americans?

yes, they remember Bob flying the flag in Gay Paree and it just chokes them up

Author:  topu [ Tue March 13th, 2012, 16:17 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Europeans Appreciate Bob Dylan More Than Americans?

Drake wrote:
Here's the thing, their encyclopedic knowledge lacks any passion, any blood, what we get from just being American.

You don't need much of that, passion and blood, to listen to the majority of Bob Dylan's work...

Author:  jcastro [ Tue March 13th, 2012, 17:32 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Europeans Appreciate Bob Dylan More Than Americans?

Bob is universal!!!!!...So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late....

Author:  wedding [ Tue March 13th, 2012, 21:25 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Europeans Appreciate Bob Dylan More Than Americans?

I don't know whether the Americans love Bob more or less than the Europeans. I do know however that Bob made many Europeans love Americans more. I for one didn't care much for the American way of life as I saw it. Bob enticed me to look further ,beyond the stereotypes and to discover a truer and more authentic America with real, full-blooded people.
I feel however that Bob's views on America are partly those from an outsider looking in. That in my opinion makes him so good and universal. I would never, ever, compare Bob to Bruce Springsteen who represents for me America from the inside out.

Author:  Train-I-Ride [ Tue March 13th, 2012, 21:45 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Europeans Appreciate Bob Dylan More Than Americans?

It all depends on how you define appreciation. If it were limited to whooping and hollering at concerts, then The US might well come out on top. And of course, when it comes to written appreciation, they can always wheel out the Holy Greil. :?

Author:  Train-I-Ride [ Tue March 13th, 2012, 22:01 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Europeans Appreciate Bob Dylan More Than Americans?

topu wrote:
Johanna Parker wrote:
People do not get to chose the place and time of their birth. Just because you happen to be born in the US doesn't mean you have any part in making Bob what he is, nor have any possessive claims to him. Like that announcer said, "You know him, he's yours." That's bullshit. He doesn't belong exclusively to any one group of people, be they folk music nerds or US Americans. He found acceptance, success, admiration, acclaim, you name it, in the wider world. Contrary to popular believe, the wider world does exist. Lots of what makes up your culture has roots in Europe. You don't have to go that far back in history to find Bob's European roots. His art is universal enough to appeal to people in many places in the world, and that's a great thing to achieve. You make it seem like Europe is full of Michael Gray's and Clinton Heylin's. Fans and followers come in various shapes and forms. There are lots of tourgoers here, lots of collectors, lots of people with an artistic approach of whatever kind. Yes, writers and scholars, too. How does it matter who does the research? Nobody forces you to read it. As if you were born with a knowledge of his influences....


Is this a Visions of Johanna quote facility that you've unearthed, topu? :?

Author:  schevling [ Tue March 13th, 2012, 22:18 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Europeans Appreciate Bob Dylan More Than Americans?

I live in a fairly small town in Connecticut just a couple hours north of New York City, and I don't run in to any diehard fans....of course I probably don't get out enough though. But seriously, I'm amazed at the lack of interest in music in general with people I meet. Then there's that touch of frustration when they start ridiculing his voice or whatever, you know? :x

Author:  chrome horse [ Tue March 13th, 2012, 23:33 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Europeans Appreciate Bob Dylan More Than Americans?

Johanna Parker wrote:
People do not get to chose the place and time of their birth. Just because you happen to be born in the US doesn't mean you have any part in making Bob what he is, nor have any possessive claims to him. Like that announcer said, "You know him, he's yours." That's bullshit. He doesn't belong exclusively to any one group of people, be they folk music nerds or US Americans. He found acceptance, success, admiration, acclaim, you name it, in the wider world. Contrary to popular believe, the wider world does exist. Lots of what makes up your culture has roots in Europe. You don't have to go that far back in history to find Bob's European roots. His art is universal enough to appeal to people in many places in the world, and that's a great thing to achieve. You make it seem like Europe is full of Michael Gray's and Clinton Heylin's. Fans and followers come in various shapes and forms. There are lots of tourgoers here, lots of collectors, lots of people with an artistic approach of whatever kind. Yes, writers and scholars, too. How does it matter who does the research? Nobody forces you to read it. As if you were born with a knowledge of his influences....


Yeah, where did that quote come from, not this thread, right? It adds another dimension I hadn't even considered =- what we used call in the gold rush - claim jumpin"!! '

"Just because you happen to be born in the US doesn't mean you have any part in making Bob what he is, nor have any possessive claims to him."

America has had no part of making Bob what he is? Huh? Wow. Might have been written under the influence of alcohol - good judgement is one of the first things to go. What about those who say artists are mirrors of society? Bob's the greatest mirror that ever lived. He does reflect back the whole planet, but we know where he was formed and reflected the most, and it's not the city of light in France.

But nothing wrong with a little intercontinental tug of war over the soul of Bob Dylan.

Author:  topu [ Wed March 14th, 2012, 00:05 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Europeans Appreciate Bob Dylan More Than Americans?

I'll consult my psychic powers and reply...

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