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If you could only see Dylan perform live once, in either 1966 or 2012, which year would you choose?
1966 71%  71%  [ 99 ]
2012 29%  29%  [ 40 ]
Total votes : 139
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 Post subject: Re: 1966 or The Now?
PostPosted: Sat February 11th, 2012, 07:18 GMT 
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Well, well. I happened upon this, in the Hard to Handle thread:

Brian Hamilton-Smith wrote:
Have you noticed how he seems pretty sober on stage most nights these days. Not very interesting, is he?


If this isn't contradicting yourself, what is? Or are you saying that you'd rather sit there bored by him and his sobriety, in 2012, than embarrassed by his intoxication and an audience of 'twats', as you called them, in 1966?


Last edited by Train-I-Ride on Sat February 11th, 2012, 07:20 GMT, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 1966 or The Now?
PostPosted: Sat February 11th, 2012, 09:53 GMT 

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Brian Hamilton-Smith wrote:
It's worth bearing in mind that if you went back to the '66 concerts in England you would be sat in an audience of twats listening to terrible sound.

Nothing's changed there.


That's not true at all but if you listened to a 2012 show in the States today it would be the same!

(actually - I don't really believe the bit about twats cos I love the USA and all that comes with it - I just wanted to emphasise how stupid your point was - unless it is some kind of joke?)


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 Post subject: Re: 1966 or The Now?
PostPosted: Sat February 11th, 2012, 09:57 GMT 
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Brian Hamilton-Smith wrote:
As a middle-aged adult, I would find the cool/hip/druggie persona Dylan adopted in '66 embarrassing to witness.

I'd rather take a chance on 2012.


So, how do you square this with your above quote? It rather sounds as though you wouldn't want to see him either year, but for entirely contradictory reasons.


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 Post subject: Re: 1966 or The Now?
PostPosted: Sat February 11th, 2012, 10:58 GMT 

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Lone Pilgrim wrote:
Oh, come on. I am a gigantic fan of 'later' Bob - in fact, I prefer his post-60s work as a rule - but the Bob of 1966 is THE Bob, a genius with total 'dominion over the spirits' and pushing that dominion as far as it can conceivably go. When I play the second disc of Live 1966 it just seems blazingly obvious that this is that rarest of articles: an artist so far given over to his own wild genius as to be unreachable and unmatched. Seeing Dylan in 1966 is seeing an historic event, the greatest musical artist of his era and one of the greatest American artists ever, at his absolute peak. I'll take that over the more subdued and questionable charms of 2012, thanks.


Can`t add much more than this LP. Excellent post and if we had a repping system I`d rep you and I don`t do that very often. Glad the poll seems to be suggesting than common sense is winning over blind optimism. BTW for a really good overview of the 66 tour and the Manchester Free Trade Hall concert in particular check out CP Lee`s Like The Night (Revisited). Somehow I don`t see the 2012 tour - assuming there is one - being written about in the same way.


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 Post subject: Re: 1966 or The Now?
PostPosted: Sat February 11th, 2012, 12:08 GMT 

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I voted 2012 ....... I saw 60s Bob, and generally as soon as electric started the sound was awful ...... if you wanted to have the slightest idea what was being said, you had to know the lyrics, and the mixes were bad and there was a lot of hostility and confusion to deal with, Pre-66 was different - what you could hear was a unique ever-changing performance in which every word was clear, and the catalogue was constantly growing, the awareness level racing.

Now, going to 2012 - I choose venues carefully, try to get up front in a small place - see Bob, interact with others, watch the interplay with the band, AND see a great artist as the candle starts to flicker doing his best to bring great wisdom to flesh ...... I have to tell you that for all the croaks it is way more exciting!


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 Post subject: Re: 1966 or The Now?
PostPosted: Sat February 11th, 2012, 14:40 GMT 
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1966 or The Now?

inthealley wrote:
I voted 2012 ....... I saw 60s Bob, and generally as soon as electric started the sound was awful ...... if you wanted to have the slightest idea what was being said, you had to know the lyrics, and the mixes were bad and there was a lot of hostility and confusion to deal with, Pre-66 was different - what you could hear was a unique ever-changing performance in which every word was clear, and the catalogue was constantly growing, the awareness level racing.

Now, going to 2012 - I choose venues carefully, try to get up front in a small place - see Bob, interact with others, watch the interplay with the band, AND see a great artist as the candle starts to flicker doing his best to bring great wisdom to flesh ...... I have to tell you that for all the croaks it is way more exciting!
This...


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 Post subject: Re: 1966 or The Now?
PostPosted: Sat February 11th, 2012, 14:53 GMT 
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1966 even if I love ModBob.


"1966 or '90s?" would be a good question.


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 Post subject: Re: 1966 or The Now?
PostPosted: Sat February 11th, 2012, 15:32 GMT 
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1966 for sure. Bob was better then& the Hawks were better than his present band.

Brian Hamilton-Smith wrote:
It's worth bearing in mind that if you went back to the '66 concerts in England you would be sat in an audience of twats listening to terrible sound.

He also toured the US. I woulda gone to the Pittsburgh show instead of flying across the ocean. I was 8 years old so neither was an option.


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 Post subject: Re: 1966 or The Now?
PostPosted: Sat February 11th, 2012, 15:38 GMT 
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Train-I-Ride wrote:
Brian Hamilton-Smith wrote:
It's worth bearing in mind that if you went back to the '66 concerts in England you would be sat in an audience of twats listening to terrible sound.

Nothing's changed there.


Just explain to us, if you will Bri, why his 1966 audience were 'twats'?

I might not call 'em twats or anything else, but I've seen the footage of the Brits leaving the '66 concerts literally in tears, telling the interviewers that they came to see a folk singer, not a loud electric band. As it had been a year since Bob went electric, I had to wonder where these folks' brains were & why they expected an entire solo acoustic show. Did they stop selling Bob's albums in England after Another Side?


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 Post subject: Re: 1966 or The Now?
PostPosted: Sat February 11th, 2012, 15:44 GMT 
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Right here, right now

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSrTmnrU ... ata_player


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 Post subject: Re: 1966 or The Now?
PostPosted: Sat February 11th, 2012, 15:46 GMT 
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Very nice avatar, Dylaned


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 Post subject: Re: 1966 or The Now?
PostPosted: Sat February 11th, 2012, 16:05 GMT 
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P. Pittsburgh Joe wrote:
I might not call 'em twats or anything else, but I've seen the footage of the Brits leaving the '66 concerts literally in tears, telling the interviewers that they came to see a folk singer, not a loud electric band. As it had been a year since Bob went electric, I had to wonder where these folks' brains were & why they expected an entire solo acoustic show. Did they stop selling Bob's albums in England after Another Side?


Well, his UK audience would have bought LARS and H61R in their droves. Remember, his '65 UK audience were familiar with electric Bib, via BIABH. Subterranean Homesick Blues was the hit that paralleled that tour. So, it's not like they were taken unawares. They just couldn't handle it live, I guess, just as his US audience couldn't, a few months earlier. It wasn't just Newport, either, as he confirms in the San Francisco Press Conference of December '65. According to him, they got booed all over the US, apart from Texas.

41-22 the score, in favour of 1966, I see.


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 Post subject: Re: 1966 or The Now?
PostPosted: Sat February 11th, 2012, 16:09 GMT 
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There were a lot of electric/loud/rock bands then. Having listened to the '66 stuff more than I care to remember, its evident he wasn't booed because he went electric. He was booed because it sounded (and still does to my ears) bad.


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 Post subject: Re: 1966 or The Now?
PostPosted: Sat February 11th, 2012, 16:24 GMT 
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Untrodden Path wrote:
There were a lot of electric/loud/rock bands then. Having listened to the '66 stuff more than I care to remember, its evident he wasn't booed because he went electric. He was booed because it sounded (and still does to my ears) bad.


Yes, everyone knows that the halls couldn't handle the amplification, and everyone- you apart, of course- now knows that the performances were genius, as proven by Live '66, NDH, ETD, and numerous bootlegs. You just can't face up to the answer as to why these concerts are the most famous in rock history, can you?


Last edited by Train-I-Ride on Sat February 11th, 2012, 16:25 GMT, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 1966 or The Now?
PostPosted: Sat February 11th, 2012, 16:24 GMT 
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It always seemed to me that where he was booed in the US, it was over problems with the sound, but where he was booed in the UK, it was for bringing an electric band on the stage in the first place. That's why the shouts of "traitor" & "Judas." He was being accused of abandoning the "folk movement" not the "good sound" movement.


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 Post subject: Re: 1966 or The Now?
PostPosted: Sat February 11th, 2012, 16:26 GMT 
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P. Pittsburgh Joe wrote:
It always seemed to me that where he was booed in the US, it was over problems with the sound, but where he was booed in the UK, it was for bringing an electric band on the stage in the first place. That's why the shouts of "traitor" & "Judas." He was being accused of abandoning the "folk movement" not the "good sound" movement.


It was probably a bit of both. What makes you so certain that there weren't folkie dissenters at those US electric concerts?


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 Post subject: Re: 1966 or The Now?
PostPosted: Sat February 11th, 2012, 16:29 GMT 
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22 people. 22 x people.
Well, I say 'people'. These fucktards would be out-thought by a comatose jellyfish.


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 Post subject: Re: 1966 or The Now?
PostPosted: Sat February 11th, 2012, 16:31 GMT 
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Train-I-Ride wrote:
P. Pittsburgh Joe wrote:
It always seemed to me that where he was booed in the US, it was over problems with the sound, but where he was booed in the UK, it was for bringing an electric band on the stage in the first place. That's why the shouts of "traitor" & "Judas." He was being accused of abandoning the "folk movement" not the "good sound" movement.


It was probably a bit of both. What makes you so certain that there weren't folkie dissenters at those US electric concerts?

None of us are certain of anything unless we attended every single 1966 show in the US & the UK & talked to every audience member. That's why I use phrases like "it always seemed to me" rather than trying to put my viewpoints forward as facts. But read Al Kooper's book, & he says the US audiences were booing bad sound. Read Levon Helm's book & he says the UK audiences didn't even wanna see the band at all. And footage I've seen of Brits leaving the '66 shows bears that out. That's all I got.


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 Post subject: Re: 1966 or The Now?
PostPosted: Sat February 11th, 2012, 16:45 GMT 
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P. Pittsburgh Joe wrote:
But read Al Kooper's book, & he says the US audiences were booing bad sound. Read Levon Helm's book & he says the UK audiences didn't even wanna see the band at all.


Kooper pulled out of the US leg before they hit Texas, citing JFK's assassination as a reason, so he never saw it through to give a full assessment, but was obviously concerned about audience reaction over there, and Helm wasn't in any position whatsoever to assess the UK audience reaction, since he pulled out of the entire World Tour.


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 Post subject: Re: 1966 or The Now?
PostPosted: Sat February 11th, 2012, 16:51 GMT 
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Surely Kooper woulda discussed the subject with Bob, as Levon woulda discussed it with Bob, too, as well his fellow Band-mates. They had more to base an opinion on than you or me or anybody else at ER.


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 Post subject: Re: 1966 or The Now?
PostPosted: Sat February 11th, 2012, 18:54 GMT 
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'66 for me. When I first got live '66 I was completely mesmerized by the acoustic set. So much so that it was months before I gave the electric side much of a listen. Even in those acoustic songs it seems he was trying to provoke the audience - the enunciation of every syllable, the stretching out of every word, the over the top nasally whining voice (even by his standards). It wasn't just music it was performance art and I think he wanted to provoke a strong reaction from the audience, even if it was a negative one. A bit of a fk you, I think.


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 Post subject: Re: 1966 or The Now?
PostPosted: Sat February 11th, 2012, 20:55 GMT 
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Bennyboy wrote:
22 people. 22 x people.
Well, I say 'people'. These fucktards would be out-thought by a comatose jellyfish.


I'd rather be a comatose jellyfish than an obsessive jerk who can't accept opinions other than his own.... :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: 1966 or The Now?
PostPosted: Sat February 11th, 2012, 20:58 GMT 
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P. Pittsburgh Joe wrote:
Surely Kooper woulda discussed the subject with Bob, as Levon woulda discussed it with Bob, too, as well his fellow Band-mates. They had more to base an opinion on than you or me or anybody else at ER.


Their opinion isn't based on 100% first-hand experience. Robbie Robertson, Rick Danko, Garth Hudson and Richard Manuel were onstage every night, in the US and UK. Levon Helm and Al Kooper weren't. Levon's memories of the '66 World Tour? Right.


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 Post subject: Re: 1966 or The Now?
PostPosted: Sat February 11th, 2012, 21:24 GMT 
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Bennyboy wrote:
22 people. 22 x people.
Well, I say 'people'. These fucktards would be out-thought by a comatose jellyfish.


They're not fit to wear the polka-dot shirt, sir.


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 Post subject: Re: 1966 or The Now?
PostPosted: Sun February 12th, 2012, 01:47 GMT 
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Train-I-Ride wrote:
Their opinion isn't based on 100% first-hand experience.

And yours is?
Train-I-Ride wrote:
Robbie Robertson, Rick Danko, Garth Hudson and Richard Manuel were onstage every night, in the US and UK. Levon Helm and Al Kooper weren't. Levon's memories of the '66 World Tour? Right.

I guess you're right. I'm sure Levon never discussed the subject with Robbie, Rick, Garth, or Richard. They probably talked about Canadian football or traded recipes.


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