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PostPosted: Thu September 13th, 2012, 21:19 GMT 

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How can a forum dedicated to an artist so sophisticated...so bright...so powerful...an artist whose work work demands that his audience think...read...understand the context in which he evolved....and try to understand what it he says or means (isn't Dylan known for his lyrics) have an audience HERE - that so few are well-read in what has obviously influenced Dylan's work. How many here are just casually steeped in the history of folk...of talking songs (reference "Long and Wasted Years," for now)....have read surrealist writers....understand the work of Scott Warmuth - which is so vital to understanding Dylan's work especially this decade....how many people here who claim they are more than just fans of his music know how to think....and do the work that his music demands you do - if you take Dylan seriously.

For those who are just fans of his music/his sound/voice...for those who simply enjoy - this post is not meant for you...but I will never understand the gap between a forum/website dedicated to a brilliant artist whose erudition in his work is as compelling as it is thought-provoking....and the never-ending low-brow posts.

A serious artist...most likely one of the great artists of the last 110 years...deserves far more serious thought on the most popular website devoted to his work.


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PostPosted: Thu September 13th, 2012, 21:22 GMT 
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So, should we start a new discussion board only let in the well read?


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PostPosted: Thu September 13th, 2012, 21:23 GMT 
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That's me not invited then :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu September 13th, 2012, 21:24 GMT 
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So we don't deserve to be Dylan fans? :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu September 13th, 2012, 21:30 GMT 

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oldfan wrote:
How can a forum dedicated to an artist so sophisticated...so bright...so powerful...an artist whose work work demands that his audience think...read...understand the context in which he evolved....and try to understand what it he says or means (isn't Dylan known for his lyrics) have an audience HERE - that so few are well-read in what has obviously influenced Dylan's work. How many here are just casually steeped in the history of folk...of talking songs (reference "Long and Wasted Years," for now)....have read surrealist writers....understand the work of Scott Warmuth - which is so vital to understanding Dylan's work especially this decade....how many people here who claim they are more than just fans of his music know how to think....and do the work that his music demands you do - if you take Dylan seriously.

For those who are just fans of his music/his sound/voice...for those who simply enjoy - this post is not meant for you...but I will never understand the gap between a forum/website dedicated to a brilliant artist whose erudition in his work is as compelling as it is thought-provoking....and the never-ending low-brow posts.

A serious artist...most likely one of the great artists of the last 110 years...deserves far more serious thought on the most popular website devoted to his work.


I agree with you, in essence.

But I suppose not everyone wants to go into it that deeply. It's too much effort. They might have to think. They might have to get their faces out their mobile phone and read a book.


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PostPosted: Thu September 13th, 2012, 21:31 GMT 

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Dear me. How condescending. Or am I not smart enough to know what that means :twisted:


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PostPosted: Thu September 13th, 2012, 21:33 GMT 
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oldfan wrote:
How can a forum dedicated to an artist so sophisticated...so bright...so powerful...an artist whose work work demands that his audience think...read...understand the context in which he evolved....and try to understand what it he says or means (isn't Dylan known for his lyrics) have an audience HERE - that so few are well-read in what has obviously influenced Dylan's work. How many here are just casually steeped in the history of folk...of talking songs (reference "Long and Wasted Years," for now)....have read surrealist writers....understand the work of Scott Warmuth - which is so vital to understanding Dylan's work especially this decade....how many people here who claim they are more than just fans of his music know how to think....and do the work that his music demands you do - if you take Dylan seriously.

For those who are just fans of his music/his sound/voice...for those who simply enjoy - this post is not meant for you...but I will never understand the gap between a forum/website dedicated to a brilliant artist whose erudition in his work is as compelling as it is thought-provoking....and the never-ending low-brow posts.

A serious artist...most likely one of the great artists of the last 110 years...deserves far more serious thought on the most popular website devoted to his work.


To be honest your post comes across as a bit snobbish. Am I less of a fan, because I don't read surrealist writers? I've never even heard of Scott Warmuth, so what?

''how many people here who claim they are more than just fans of his music know how to think''

Know how to think? I didn't know there was a certain way to think when you're a fan of his music.


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PostPosted: Thu September 13th, 2012, 21:36 GMT 
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rimbaud wrote:
I agree with you, in essence.

But I suppose not everyone wants to go into it that deeply. It's too much effort. They might have to think. They might have to get their faces out their mobile phone and read a book.


''They might have to think''...jesus what a condescending thing to say.


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PostPosted: Thu September 13th, 2012, 21:39 GMT 

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oldfan wrote:
How can a forum dedicated to an artist so sophisticated...so bright...so powerful...an artist whose work work demands that his audience think...read...understand the context in which he evolved....and try to understand what it he says or means (isn't Dylan known for his lyrics) have an audience HERE - that so few are well-read in what has obviously influenced Dylan's work. How many here are just casually steeped in the history of folk...of talking songs (reference "Long and Wasted Years," for now)....have read surrealist writers....understand the work of Scott Warmuth - which is so vital to understanding Dylan's work especially this decade....how many people here who claim they are more than just fans of his music know how to think....and do the work that his music demands you do - if you take Dylan seriously.

For those who are just fans of his music/his sound/voice...for those who simply enjoy - this post is not meant for you...but I will never understand the gap between a forum/website dedicated to a brilliant artist whose erudition in his work is as compelling as it is thought-provoking....and the never-ending low-brow posts.

A serious artist...most likely one of the great artists of the last 110 years...deserves far more serious thought on the most popular website devoted to his work.


He's not the genius you think he is. He works on an instinctive level, and some of it stands up and some of it don't.

Many of our wonderful artists are the same.


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PostPosted: Thu September 13th, 2012, 21:44 GMT 
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I'm all for having a bit more respectful, deep discussion around these parts, but you don't have to read all the stuff Dylan reads to do that! Just listen to the music and read whatever you like.


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PostPosted: Thu September 13th, 2012, 21:47 GMT 
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oldfan, I appreciate your posts on here and read them with great interest.

I'm sure you've considered a few things that make ER what it is. Many people here, myself included, use the forum as a passtime, light-hearted banter. As I said, I do enjoy serious discussion and read it with interest and try to learn from it.

Your own username suggests a certain age, nothing precise, but very probably a few years above me (just under 30), giving you more time to listen and read and study, and, if I may say so, a different way of doing so. People tend to put more thought into words they write for the printed page than they do into instant posts on a website such as this. The Warmuth thread shows that serious debate can take place here, as opposed to via "fanzines" and books and private discussions, but there is a limited number of people participating. Most of those posting there seem to be learned people, who could teach those of us here that are willing to learn. One has to be willing to learn though, and some might consider Dylan to be merely in the entertainment business. We could have the best of both sides. I can only speak for myself and I am willing to learn, from Bob and from people knowing about his fields of art, and I find that as I learn my point of view can shift, but I never stop appreciating the art. It saddens me that there are still people on here who'd rather everyone kept quiet about intertextuality, for example. It is not something that could hurt Dylan's standing as an artist, but it is stimulating to learn about it not just in the context of his work, but in wider cultural terms. It can be intimidating sometimes, if I can say so as someone who's not academically schooled in much of the literary works in question, nor a native speaker and writer of the English language, and there are probably many here for whom either one or both aspects are true, but I will continue reading, and among my more light-hearted posts there may be some serious and thoughtful and questioning. All anyone can do is try.


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PostPosted: Thu September 13th, 2012, 21:48 GMT 
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I'm a fan of Bob because I love his music, I love how he puts words together ... no i haven't read much Shakespeare or William Blake, doesn't mean his music doesn't have a profound impact on me


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PostPosted: Thu September 13th, 2012, 21:48 GMT 
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He doesn't seem to take himself nearly as seriously as some of his fans do...which doesn't mean his work is not worthy of attentive study, but it does mean there's nothing wrong with simply enjoying it.


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PostPosted: Thu September 13th, 2012, 21:54 GMT 
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I agree with all Johanna just said. By being a member on ER, I've been turned onto a lot of great stuff. There's been some really eye opening discussions on here that have been a pleasure to read. But I rarely post in General Discussions these days. I find I'm much better at light-heated banter than I am at serious academic debate. That doesn't make me any less of a fan.


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PostPosted: Thu September 13th, 2012, 22:01 GMT 
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You're very well read it's well known...
right, Mr. Jones?

i think people should have enough freedom to consider themselves whatever they want and to don't fall in the useless need of labeling likes.

sure mr. dylan is a serious artist, and a serious subject, but that doesn't mean you need a PhD to post on ER, or else, next step will be segregate the members and boy, last century's history told us that ain't no good.


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PostPosted: Thu September 13th, 2012, 22:05 GMT 
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Johanna Parker wrote:
Your own username suggests a certain age, nothing precise, but very probably a few years above me (just under 30), giving you more time to listen and read and study, and, if I may say so, a different way of doing so.


JP makes a very good point about age.

I'm of an age where I had the luxury of being swept away with Bob thru his vast career (about 35 years ago). He compelled me to read authors I may never have had an interest in reading - he's also taught me a thing or two about other musical artists and why I should care about them - and he's usually been right.

His is a 50 year career that has been influenced by a myriad of authors, cultures, musicians, religions and.....life. If I were a new Bob fan, I'd be overwhelmed if I thought I'd have to study everthing that influenced this remarkable artist in order to enjoy him. One could make it a full time job.

People get different things from Bob. I didn't really become interested until he was past the folk phase (which I respect alot). However, when he plugged in.... now that grabbed me by the boo boo. THAT'S what I think is special about being a BD fan. Different people dig different things about his long and vast career. I'm really enjoying his bluesy, jazzy rockabilly thing now. That's what makes my world go round.

There's nothing wrong with just digging his music. I betcha a nickle Bob would be okay with that.


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PostPosted: Thu September 13th, 2012, 22:07 GMT 
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I always have the feeling that people who need to talk about the necessity of reading books are quite new to the concept.


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PostPosted: Thu September 13th, 2012, 22:08 GMT 
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oldfan wrote:
how many people here know how to think.


Seriously, are you out of your mind?


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PostPosted: Thu September 13th, 2012, 22:10 GMT 
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I think some people read too much into Dylan's lyrics and make a mountain out of a mole hill...

all you well read thinkers who have the inside key...

well I'm decent at math... and during his Rome Interview in 2001 Bob said a squared = b squared = c squared...which is non existent to say the least

how come none of you well read folks picked that out?

unreal :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu September 13th, 2012, 22:11 GMT 
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Milkcow wrote:
during his Rome Interview in 2001


Have you danced all morning? :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu September 13th, 2012, 22:13 GMT 
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Mosdef need more topics about da schlong.


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PostPosted: Thu September 13th, 2012, 22:18 GMT 
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What the person starting this thread also seemingly fails to understand is...that many may be more involved with the type of reading and thought process that he/she speaks of...but doesn't feel the need...or desire to articulate it. Or at least articulate it on an ongoing basis. There are enough long winded posts on er...without all of us having to participate. That would take the enjoyment out of coming here...for a great many. The forum is not a bible study on Bob.

(JP...doesn't pontificate Bob's songs in her posts...and many are already long winded. Just think if she got into dissecting Bob's work. Holley Molley! 8) .)


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PostPosted: Thu September 13th, 2012, 22:24 GMT 
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He's looking for the Holy Greil.


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PostPosted: Thu September 13th, 2012, 22:26 GMT 
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I don't know oldfan. One of the clear themes running through all of the songs is to get art out of the museums and into the streets. His music celebrates anti-reverentiality (if that's a word :lol: ) And resists intellectualism. i hear you, but eh--I think the level of discourse here is actually quite high. Really freakin' high if you compare it to most other discussion boards on the internet.


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PostPosted: Thu September 13th, 2012, 22:33 GMT 
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Dylaned wrote:
Milkcow wrote:
during his Rome Interview in 2001


Have you danced all morning? :lol: :lol:



I'm missing the joke... sorry... I know it's not funny when you have to explain it...

anyway, the reason I brought up that interview was because there was a blatant mathematical error in it. Going along the same lines as the original poster, I mean Bob is so influential and such a great artist, why aren't we dissecting even his incorrect mathematical references? I mean the OP 's insinuation that the people who aren't as well read and make light hearted posts really aren't as worthy as the well read thinkers.... well, mr well read thinker... you certainly are not as smart as you think you are and other people have expertise in other areas... reading books isn't the only factor in expanding your horizons.... I am sure there is a positive correlation, however it is not a causation. That was my point, mathematically speaking.


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