Expecting Rain
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Is "Things Have Changed" Bob's Last Truly Great Song?
http://www.expectingrain.com/discussions/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=64133
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Author:  Milkcow [ Tue October 4th, 2011, 02:20 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Is "Things Have Changed" Bob's Last Truly Great Song?

wineman wrote:



No...you're not the only one...and he's not trying to be funny. He's just a fools fool.

BTW...hope you've been well.

WM



HI!!!! I am well!!! How are you? :D

Author:  Still Go Barefoot [ Tue October 4th, 2011, 02:20 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Is "Things Have Changed" Bob's Last Truly Great Song?

Ha, I thought you sounded older. I'll be 103 on Tuesday!

Author:  wineman [ Tue October 4th, 2011, 02:24 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Is "Things Have Changed" Bob's Last Truly Great Song?

Milkcow wrote:
wineman wrote:



No...you're not the only one...and he's not trying to be funny. He's just a fools fool.

BTW...hope you've been well.

WM



HI!!!! I am well!!! How are you? :D


Pretty good, baby. Glad you are too. 8)

Author:  Milkcow [ Tue October 4th, 2011, 02:25 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Is "Things Have Changed" Bob's Last Truly Great Song?

:mrgreen:

Author:  wineman [ Tue October 4th, 2011, 02:26 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Is "Things Have Changed" Bob's Last Truly Great Song?

Milkcow wrote:
:mrgreen:

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :wink:

Author:  wineman [ Tue October 4th, 2011, 02:29 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Is "Things Have Changed" Bob's Last Truly Great Song?

Still Go Barefoot wrote:
Ha, I thought you sounded older. I'll be 103 on Tuesday!


You're aging well...like a 1929 Bordeaux.

Author:  Still Go Barefoot [ Tue October 4th, 2011, 02:43 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Is "Things Have Changed" Bob's Last Truly Great Song?

I would expect that from someone named "Wineman"

Author:  mrdeejay [ Tue October 4th, 2011, 05:01 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Is "Things Have Changed" Bob's Last Truly Great Song?

wineman wrote:
No...you're not the only one...and he's not trying to be funny. He's just a fools fool.

WM



...and you're nothing more than an angry drunk...should have seen that right away by your username.

What is it about Florida and rampant stupidity? Is it merely the heat, the easy access to narcotics, or is there something in the water?

And hey...why don't you post one of your amazing original songs for everyone to marvel at...poseur?

Author:  Stuart [ Tue October 4th, 2011, 10:37 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Is "Things Have Changed" Bob's Last Truly Great Song?

Quote:
Stuart--I play the song in Am, which for matters of convenience, we'll call C (Am being the 6th and all that). Using that metric, the "Standing on the gallows" part goes to F, which is the IV in C.


This makes no sense musically. Again, apologies to everyone for departing into musical jargon. There's some interesting stuff at the end (hopefully).

There are two problems with reading THC in Cmajor. First, just because two keys have the same notes in them doesn't mean that they are interchangeable. Notes have roles in keys, they're not in a random order. Anyone with a good ear can recognize the role a chord has in the key without knowing what the key is. IVth and Vth (sub-dominant and dominant) have distinctive roles in a song. Even non-musos will recognize the classic rise to the Vth chord in a blues progression. Also, non-musos can usually tell the difference between a major chord and a minor chord - even though the same notes, in a different context, can create minor or major chords. (To give the classic example, Gmaj6 has exactly the same notes as Em7.) Any decent musician can tell whether they're in a minor or major key from the outset without any deep analysis of the chord structure. Saying THC is in Cmajor is as absurd as saying that Blowing in the Wind is in Bm.

Second, you are assuming that Am in this case is enharmonic with C (enharmonic means that it has the same notes). This is often true but not in this case. I take it you are playing these chords as the base structure of the song: Am Dm E7. This is the transposed version of the progression notated by dylanchords and it sounds right to me. This is a standard minor blues. E7 is obviously the dominant. Most musicians, even without a grounding in theory, will instinctively go for an Aminor pentatonic scale when soloing over a progression like this. E7 is *not* a chord from the C scale (n C it would be Em7). This is obvious when you lay out the notes for the chords: A is A C E, D is D F A, E7 is E G# B - which gives us a scale of A B C D E F G#. The scale of C is C D E F G A B. So they are not enharmonic at all.

We are in fact in the weird and wonderful world of the A Harmonic Minor scale, with its distinctive tonal jump between the sixth and seventh which makes it sound exotically 'Eastern.' Before everyone gets too excited though, this stuff is as old as the hills. Perhaps the most famous example of an Aminor blues in this vein is the classic Minor Swing (Django Reinhardt):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpmOTGun ... ure=fvwrel (sorry about the ad in front)

This is from c. 1938. It has the same progression as the A section in THC and a similar kind of chugging rhythm as well. If it wasn't so fast, you can sing THC over it. There are countless examples of this.

So, going back to the change, the F is not the IVth, it is the VIth, which as I argued above is a completely conventional change, most famously used by Django Reinhardt (the master of minor blues) back in the 40s with Minor Blues. I couldn't find a decent sounding youtube clip but this is someone copying the original. The chord change from Gm to the sixth, Eb (same as Am to F) is very distinctive and hopefully familiar from THC:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLGxXRpg ... re=related

This is a very roundabout way of saying that the song structure for THC is straightforward and conventional. It is in A harmonic minor, it resolves on Am, the dominant chord is E7

Author:  Solo Teem [ Tue November 1st, 2011, 22:33 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Is "Things Have Changed" Bob's Last Truly Great Song?

Screamin' Jay Hawkins' "Frenzy" sounds so much like this song--and a bit like "Beyond Here"

Author:  Tragos114 [ Tue November 1st, 2011, 22:36 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Is "Things Have Changed" Bob's Last Truly Great Song?

Solo Teem wrote:
Screamin' Jay Hawkins' "Frenzy" sounds so much like this song--and a bit like "Beyond Here"


Nah , these chords have been used sooooo many times...

Author:  Solo Teem [ Wed November 2nd, 2011, 19:19 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Is "Things Have Changed" Bob's Last Truly Great Song?

I am absolutely livid with rage at the cheek of this newbie... newbies should always be respectful and polite to fellow contributors... and especially me as Senior Contributor... respect costs nothing!

Author:  Tragos114 [ Wed November 2nd, 2011, 21:46 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Is "Things Have Changed" Bob's Last Truly Great Song?

Solo Teem wrote:
I am absolutely livid with rage at the cheek of this newbie... newbies should always be respectful and polite to fellow contributors... and especially me as Senior Contributor... respect costs nothing!


:lol:

Author:  Isis_ [ Fri November 4th, 2011, 09:29 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Is "Things Have Changed" Bob's Last Truly Great Song?

No not at all, every song he ever released to me is truly amazing, including the Knocked Out Loaded stuff, but how could you say that Po' Boy is not a truly great song?

Author:  Captain_Arab [ Fri November 4th, 2011, 09:53 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Is "Things Have Changed" Bob's Last Truly Great Song?

i think most of love & theft is equal to it if not better, well maybe half the songs on love & theft....

Author:  Tragos114 [ Fri November 4th, 2011, 12:01 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Is "Things Have Changed" Bob's Last Truly Great Song?

Isis_ wrote:
No not at all, every song he ever released to me is truly amazing, including the Knocked Out Loaded stuff, but how could you say that Po' Boy is not a truly great song?


+ 1 :) .
Anyway , this is a silly thread in my opinion. Is "Things Have Changed" Bob's Last Truly Great Song? Obviously not ... Bob has written so many great songs since 2000...

Author:  Untrodden Path [ Fri November 4th, 2011, 23:53 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Is "Things Have Changed" Bob's Last Truly Great Song?

And sang many great songs that were not his own... he has a way of making them his own.

Author:  Mr. Tambourine Man [ Fri November 4th, 2011, 23:59 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Is "Things Have Changed" Bob's Last Truly Great Song?

Yes, I think so... though everybody who says that Cross The Green Mountain is are also right. See how wonderful it works out?

Author:  The Mighty Monkey Of Mim [ Sat November 5th, 2011, 03:20 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Is "Things Have Changed" Bob's Last Truly Great Song?

Mr. Tambourine Man wrote:
Yes, I think so... though everybody who says that Cross The Green Mountain is are also right. See how wonderful it works out?

Translation: I don't think anything on Modern Times is great...?

Author:  Mr. Tambourine Man [ Sat November 5th, 2011, 03:34 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Is "Things Have Changed" Bob's Last Truly Great Song?

The Mighty Monkey Of Mim wrote:
Mr. Tambourine Man wrote:
Yes, I think so... though everybody who says that Cross The Green Mountain is are also right. See how wonderful it works out?

Translation: I don't think anything on Modern Times is great...?


Ah, Nettie Moore is the only song worth keeping around. Together Through Life is more superb by leaps and bounds. Nice to see ya around old friend.

Author:  The Mighty Monkey Of Mim [ Sat November 5th, 2011, 04:59 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Is "Things Have Changed" Bob's Last Truly Great Song?

You too! :wink:

I rather think the opposite; TTL is not a bad record and has some good songs on it. Only THIS DREAM OF YOU would I consider a real contender for a "great" one, though, and as an album it lacks the impact and cohesion of MT or L&T.

No harm in disagreement among friends, though!

Author:  Matt_77 [ Sat September 9th, 2017, 18:37 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Is "Things Have Changed" Bob's Last Truly Great Song?

Wmb#2.

End of thread.

Author:  rolling_thunder [ Sat September 9th, 2017, 18:40 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Is "Things Have Changed" Bob's Last Truly Great Song?

No. He's made better songs since that one.

Author:  Ain't Talkin' [ Sat September 9th, 2017, 18:50 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Is "Things Have Changed" Bob's Last Truly Great Song?

Captain_Arab wrote:
i think most of love & theft is equal to it if not better, well maybe half the songs on love & theft....


Yeh. THC is a good latter day Dylan song, but ultimately it's less than the sum of it's parts.

Author:  goodmeats [ Sat September 9th, 2017, 19:06 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Is "Things Have Changed" Bob's Last Truly Great Song?

Ain't Talkin'
Cross The Green Mountain
Tempest

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