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cultural blasphemer really takes the cake
http://www.expectingrain.com/discussions/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=54553
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Author:  AndoDoug [ Tue November 9th, 2010, 01:47 GMT ]
Post subject:  cultural blasphemer really takes the cake

The #5 story on the main page for Nov. 8th--Calling Bob Dylan "the greatest songwriter" borders on cultural blasphemy - (Ann Arbor)--turns out to be a letter to the editor. I didn't realize at first, and thinking him a pundit starting giving him a pretty hard time in the comments lol, hope he replies but i doubt it
http://bit.ly/cBpj8c

Author:  Untrodden Path [ Tue November 9th, 2010, 02:16 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: cultural blasphemer really takes the cake

Seeing his title Head, First Pentecostal School of Music of Jesus Christ, Ypsilanti told me everything I needed to know about his ability to make such a judgment.

Author:  AndoDoug [ Tue November 9th, 2010, 04:09 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: cultural blasphemer really takes the cake

LOL, dying to hear which dylan he especially hates.

Author:  slimtimslide [ Tue November 9th, 2010, 05:44 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: cultural blasphemer really takes the cake

Music - ALL MUSIC - is blasphemous in it's attempts to recreate perfection which only God herself can do. Just ask the Taliban or Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin or one of the original desert Stylites (not the 70s soul band). Thank god for music. God save us from untalented harmonica players. 'Tis the work of the devil.

" A cultured man is one who knows how to play the accordian but refrains from doing so" - Oscar of course.

Author:  Long Johnny [ Tue November 9th, 2010, 06:33 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: cultural blasphemer really takes the cake

The guy doesn't hate Dylan, not at all. Unlike the assembled fan boy minions, he fails to worship him. His point is well taken to any rational person - Dylan ISN'T "better" than Gershwin for Christ's sake.... get a grip.

Author:  Milkcow [ Tue November 9th, 2010, 21:34 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: cultural blasphemer really takes the cake

musicianship wise and musically, no, he isn't better than george gershwin

lyrically, I like him better than ira ...although I love porgy and bess music and lyrics

Author:  Untrodden Path [ Wed November 10th, 2010, 11:18 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: cultural blasphemer really takes the cake

Those are good points but one can never dismiss the effects of the NET on Dylan's singing and songwriting (not to mention his guitar playing) which sets him apart, that is, way out in front of all others.

Author:  slocastro [ Wed November 10th, 2010, 15:21 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: cultural blasphemer really takes the cake

Dylan isn't better than Gershwin the same way that Gershwin isn't better than Dylan.

What are we supposed to do? Tally up how many songs each has that are considered "good" and see who's got more?

How silly.

Author:  Bennyboy [ Wed November 10th, 2010, 15:35 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: cultural blasphemer really takes the cake

I wrote a song about Jesus:

Hey Jesus,
I like your style
And your beard and your robes
And benevolent smile
And your stories that make me go
all gooey inside
I bet the chicks all dig you, it'd be so cut and dried
With you as my wingman
Doing miracles at my side
So let's go clubbing tonight
and get
Cruuuuuuuuccccciiiiifiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiieeed

Author:  Lars1966 [ Wed November 10th, 2010, 16:09 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: cultural blasphemer really takes the cake

I've added my 2p worth to the web page. Dave Brubeck FFS, that's just an insult...

Author:  Long Johnny [ Wed November 10th, 2010, 17:32 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: cultural blasphemer really takes the cake

Lars1966 wrote:
I've added my 2p worth to the web page. Dave Brubeck FFS, that's just an insult...


WTF is the problem with Dave Brubeck??????

Dave Brubeck has long served as proof that creative jazz and popular success can go together. Although critics who had championed him when he was unknown seemed to scorn him when the Dave Brubeck Quartet became a surprise success, in reality Brubeck never watered down or altered his music in order to gain a wide audience. Creative booking (being one of the first groups to play regularly on college campuses) and a bit of luck resulted in great popularity, and Dave Brubeck remains one of the few household names in jazz.

From nearly the start, Brubeck enjoyed utilizing poly-rhythms and poly-tonality (playing in two keys at once). Dave Brubeck's defining masterpiece, Time Out is one of the most rhythmically innovative albums in jazz history, the first to consciously explore time signatures outside of the standard 4/4 beat or 3/4 waltz time. It was a risky move -- Brubeck's record company wasn't keen on releasing such an arty project, and many critics initially roasted him for tampering with jazz's rhythmic foundation. But for once, public taste was more advanced than that of the critics. Buoyed by a hit single in altoist Paul Desmond's ubiquitous "Take Five," Time Out became an unexpectedly huge success, and still ranks as one of the most popular jazz albums ever. That's a testament to Brubeck and Desmond's abilities as composers, because Time Out is full of challenges both subtle and overt -- it's just that they're not jarring. Brubeck's classic "Blue Rondo à la Turk" blends jazz with classical form and Turkish folk rhythms, while "Take Five," despite its overexposure, really is a masterpiece; listen to how well Desmond's solo phrasing fits the 5/4 meter, and how much Joe Morello's drum solo bends time without getting lost. The other selections are richly melodic as well, and even when the meters are even, the group sets up shifting polyrhythmic counterpoints that nod to African and Eastern musics. Some have come to disdain Time Out as it's become increasingly synonymous with upscale coffeehouse ambience, but as someone once said of Shakespeare, "it's really very good in spite of the people who like it." It doesn't just sound sophisticated -- it really is sophisticated music, which lends itself to cerebral appreciation, yet never stops swinging. Countless other musicians built on its pioneering experiments, yet it's amazingly accessible for all its advanced thinking, a rare feat in any art form. This belongs in even the most rudimentary jazz collection.

Author:  jcastro [ Wed November 10th, 2010, 17:40 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: cultural blasphemer really takes the cake

Bennyboy wrote:
I wrote a song about Jesus:

Hey Jesus,
I like your style
And your beard and your robes
And benevolent smile
And your stories that make me go
all gooey inside
I bet the chicks all dig you, it'd be so cut and dried
With you as my wingman
Doing miracles at my side
So let's go clubbing tonight
and get
Cruuuuuuuuccccciiiiifiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiieeed

goood. I would write the music.

Author:  jcastro [ Wed November 10th, 2010, 17:50 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: cultural blasphemer really takes the cake

What do you think the melody of "Time Passes Slowly"?

Author:  Long Johnny [ Wed November 10th, 2010, 18:32 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: cultural blasphemer really takes the cake

jcastro wrote:
What do you think the melody of "Time Passes Slowly"?


It's pretty.

Any idea who wrote it?

Author:  AndoDoug [ Wed November 10th, 2010, 21:05 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: cultural blasphemer really takes the cake

Lars1966 wrote:
I've added my 2p worth to the web page. Dave Brubeck FFS, that's just an insult...

Quote:
Yep, that Take Five is a great song; greater than all of Bob Dylan's songs put together...
LOL, priceless--it's fun being annoying towards those who cry blasphemy for perceived 'lowness' if that is the term, but in all seriousness, dylan still does divide people in a way that makes Joan Baez wet--which side are you on, above or belowe :-)

Author:  chrome horse [ Wed November 10th, 2010, 22:39 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: cultural blasphemer really takes the cake

LJ, excellent writing on Dave Brubeck. I knew his son Dan about 20 years ago. A friend and I booked a few gigs for his band, The Brubeck Brothers. Nice people. I think Dave is some type of American Indian. Dan had some great stories about growing up and traveling the world with his dad.

Author:  AndoDoug [ Thu November 11th, 2010, 00:32 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: cultural blasphemer really takes the cake

Long Johnny wrote:
The guy doesn't hate Dylan, not at all. Unlike the assembled fan boy minions, he fails to worship him. His point is well taken to any rational person - Dylan ISN'T "better" than Gershwin for Christ's sake.... get a grip.
He's not saying better or worse, he's saying one is a Sinner with a Capital Es. A dirty, stinkin hippie, LJ

Author:  Lars1966 [ Thu November 11th, 2010, 14:02 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: cultural blasphemer really takes the cake

Long Johnny wrote:
Lars1966 wrote:
I've added my 2p worth to the web page. Dave Brubeck FFS, that's just an insult...


WTF is the problem with Dave Brubeck??????

Dave Brubeck has long served as proof that creative jazz and popular success can go together. Although critics who had championed him when he was unknown seemed to scorn him when the Dave Brubeck Quartet became a surprise success, in reality Brubeck never watered down or altered his music in order to gain a wide audience. Creative booking (being one of the first groups to play regularly on college campuses) and a bit of luck resulted in great popularity, and Dave Brubeck remains one of the few household names in jazz.

From nearly the start, Brubeck enjoyed utilizing poly-rhythms and poly-tonality (playing in two keys at once). Dave Brubeck's defining masterpiece, Time Out is one of the most rhythmically innovative albums in jazz history, the first to consciously explore time signatures outside of the standard 4/4 beat or 3/4 waltz time. It was a risky move -- Brubeck's record company wasn't keen on releasing such an arty project, and many critics initially roasted him for tampering with jazz's rhythmic foundation. But for once, public taste was more advanced than that of the critics. Buoyed by a hit single in altoist Paul Desmond's ubiquitous "Take Five," Time Out became an unexpectedly huge success, and still ranks as one of the most popular jazz albums ever. That's a testament to Brubeck and Desmond's abilities as composers, because Time Out is full of challenges both subtle and overt -- it's just that they're not jarring. Brubeck's classic "Blue Rondo à la Turk" blends jazz with classical form and Turkish folk rhythms, while "Take Five," despite its overexposure, really is a masterpiece; listen to how well Desmond's solo phrasing fits the 5/4 meter, and how much Joe Morello's drum solo bends time without getting lost. The other selections are richly melodic as well, and even when the meters are even, the group sets up shifting polyrhythmic counterpoints that nod to African and Eastern musics. Some have come to disdain Time Out as it's become increasingly synonymous with upscale coffeehouse ambience, but as someone once said of Shakespeare, "it's really very good in spite of the people who like it." It doesn't just sound sophisticated -- it really is sophisticated music, which lends itself to cerebral appreciation, yet never stops swinging. Countless other musicians built on its pioneering experiments, yet it's amazingly accessible for all its advanced thinking, a rare feat in any art form. This belongs in even the most rudimentary jazz collection.

I wasn't being entirely serious. I don't really like all this so and so is better than whatsisname business, after all they're not even the same style of music. But what did annoy me in this case was how the guy is comparing an instrumental artist with someone who's known for being a great lyricist and singer. Think I'll check out Time Out though after reading your comments :)

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