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PostPosted: Wed August 23rd, 2017, 20:48 GMT 
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Joined: Tue October 4th, 2005, 21:01 GMT
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Well' it's a 'jesus'y' song. And it's ridiculous to critique a song like this in the post-modern fashion via a feminist prism.


Not all jesus'y stuff needs to be ugly. And Dylan has an on-again off-again relationship with being a complete chauvinist.
I'm not trying to do some in depth post modern critique. I genuinely love the song, but even in 1992 when I was 15 I knew the first line was unnecessarily disparaging.


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PostPosted: Wed August 23rd, 2017, 22:39 GMT 

Joined: Fri January 5th, 2007, 23:38 GMT
Posts: 1928
Location: Ireland
HunterRose wrote:
Quote:

Well' it's a 'jesus'y' song. And it's ridiculous to critique a song like this in the post-modern fashion via a feminist prism.


Not all jesus'y stuff needs to be ugly. And Dylan has an on-again off-again relationship with being a complete chauvinist.
I'm not trying to do some in depth post modern critique. I genuinely love the song, but even in 1992 when I was 15 I knew the first line was unnecessarily disparaging.


It's my impression that the song describes some ugly people and things. A woman can be as wicked as a man, though the method might be different, is maybe what the first two lines are saying. The song is mostly a disparaging one, why not start as one means to go on? It's upon the people being disparaged that the Foot of Pride is going to come down.


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PostPosted: Wed August 23rd, 2017, 23:53 GMT 
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That explanation doesn't work for me.
The line isn't condemning women who are as vicious as men.
The woman in question's crime is "Passing herself off as male"

So what is he condemning?
Ultimately he's condemming behavior. Tearing flesh of of a person. Yeah that's bad.
But, I don't see how passing as a male is some big crime analogous to ripping a person's skin off.
Nor is either image related to "Pride".

It's an odd thing to start the song with, and reeks of Christian homophobic hysteria. (Which isn't postmodern analysis, it's absolutely period accurate to Bob's stage sermonizing and general Right wing Christian dogma circa 1983)

The other mentions of women in the song are: "Miss Delilah is a Philistine". Which again, is just ugly rightwingy bullshit.
There is also of course, the whore who gives thanks to the head collectors (this line always makes me laugh).

I do agree that it's an ugly song, but typically I expect Dylan to present his ideas more cleverly.
Overall I do really enjoy this song, and most of the behavior described is genuinely deplorable.

The song is chock full of engaging imagery and interesting juxtapositions. And dare I say, it's funny! Pitch black gallows humor that makes me laugh out loud still.

One of my favorite lines is:
They kill babies in the crib and say only the good die young
They don't believe in mercy
Judgment on them is something that you'll never see

There's another thread that has a poll to vote for the best lines in this song, and I would think that any poet would be lucky to have come up with any one of these. And then here's Dylan with some 30+ all in one song. Nearly everyone of them absolute gold.

Nonetheless I cringe in a couple places.


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PostPosted: Thu August 24th, 2017, 02:00 GMT 
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Joined: Fri July 15th, 2011, 02:23 GMT
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A great song with crazy ass lyrics.
Perhaps the giant Complete Lyrics Bible can shed some light on the true lyrics.
Too lazy to pull it out right now though.


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PostPosted: Thu August 24th, 2017, 07:14 GMT 

Joined: Fri January 5th, 2007, 23:38 GMT
Posts: 1928
Location: Ireland
HunterRose wrote:
"Miss Delilah is a Philistine". Which again, is just ugly rightwingy bullshit.
:

But that's a reference from the Bible. The original Delilah sided treacherously with the Philistines. If it's a modern version he's referring to, it may just be a comment on her treachery. Hardly the first time that Dylan made such an accusation against a member of the opposite sex.

As Barefoot says, many of these lyrics are Bible-based. Those first two lines may also be. Regardless, you are anachronistically criticising Dylan for views that were expressed in a different zeitgeist thirty years ago, when such ideas weren't the omnipresent fashion.


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