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PostPosted: Fri March 9th, 2012, 17:15 GMT 

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I'm starting wonder. JP put a link to some German guy who has a massive website tracking everything Bob has done - very impressive. I know a lot of posters here are from there, and this very site is hosted from where - Sweden?
Some of our most prolific and gifted posters here, Bennyboy andThickboy(one in the same?), are from the UK. JP, I think, is in Germany. jcastro is in Spain(when he isn't here!).

I know from my own experience in America, that even though worldwide superstar that Bob Dylan is, his rabid fans here are really a very small minority. For example, at the place I work, with 25 employees, I'm the only Dylan fan I know of, and I don't even mention it. Pretty much everyone here knows who Bob is, but not not many people are actually into him.

I remember a few years back when super model Cindy Crawford dumped actor Richard Gere, one of the her memorable quotes was "and I don't love Bob Dylan!" - like Richard does.


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PostPosted: Fri March 9th, 2012, 17:20 GMT 
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The site owners are Norweigan.


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PostPosted: Fri March 9th, 2012, 17:20 GMT 
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I think he appeals to a minority pretty much everywhere...but it's a big enough minority to matter, and an influential enough minority to make what he does matter. He's never been anywhere near the best selling artist around, even in the sixties.


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PostPosted: Fri March 9th, 2012, 17:22 GMT 
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There are tons of American fans. I know many of them and some with no link to ER.


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PostPosted: Fri March 9th, 2012, 17:23 GMT 

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BostonAreaBobFan wrote:
The site owners are Norweigan.


Thank you. I was close!

So this site is started by Norwegians, I assume, and this is the definitive Bob Dylan fan site - is it not?

This is best Dylan site other than the real thing http://www.bobdylan.com/, right?


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PostPosted: Fri March 9th, 2012, 17:24 GMT 
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Thanks chrome horse, I had to think about this a while since I can't recall posting any such link, so I guess you're referring to Olof's Files. He's Swedish. KE (our webmaster) is Norwegian. Most active Dylanzines are published from the UK (there's one irregularly published US one now). Bob plays Europe more often than elsewhere in the world outside the US, so he must feel appreciated (both artistically/emotionally and financially). For most continental Europeans, there's the extra challege / effort of grasping the complexity of Bob's words in a foreign language.


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PostPosted: Fri March 9th, 2012, 17:25 GMT 
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BostonAreaBobFan wrote:
There are tons of American fans. I know many of them and some with no link to ER.


Do you mean tons by weight? :lol:


Sure, there are lots of them, the country has 300+ million people in it, but I'd still say it's a minority compared to say, Led Zepellin or Pink Floyd or the Rolling Stones or whatever half clothed ditzy pop start is big right now.


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PostPosted: Fri March 9th, 2012, 17:26 GMT 

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Johanna Parker wrote:
Thanks chrome horse, I had to think about this a while since I can't recall posting any such link, so I guess you're referring to Olof's Files. He's Swedish. KE (our webmaster) is Norwegian. Most active Dylanzines are published from the UK (there's one irregularly published US one now). Bob plays Europe more often than elsewhere in the world outside the US, so he must feel appreciated (both artistically/emotionally and financially). For most continental Europeans, there's the extra challege / effort of grasping the complexity of Bob's words in a foreign language.


This is where I saw your link, in the "collecting Dylan stuff" thread -


"Bob has been active in the business for 50 years now, so it took him that long to live and produce what is there so far. Of course, you can listen to five concerts a day, but you will probably not appreciate special gems and nuances in this way. This site is good to get an overview, it lists all concerts, sessions, etc, and also notes if something is known to exist, but hasn't been circulated. http://www.bjorner.com/bob.htm You can journey through your whole life with Bob's music, there's so much to discover, and you are young and in no hurry. Enjoy!"

Great site, by the way. Thank you.


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PostPosted: Fri March 9th, 2012, 17:29 GMT 
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chrome horse wrote:
So this site is started by Norwegians, I assume, and this is the definitive Bob Dylan fan site - is it not?

This is best Dylan site other than the real thing http://www.bobdylan.com/, right?


Different sites serve different purposes, and many of the available Dylan sites are good to have.

bobdates.com (US)
searchingforagem.com (UK I think)
Come, Writers & Critics (French based)
Olof's Files (Swedish as stated above)
etc


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PostPosted: Fri March 9th, 2012, 17:33 GMT 
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chrome horse wrote:
This is where I saw your link, in the "collecting Dylan stuff" thread -

http://www.bjorner.com/bob.htm

Great site, by the way. Thank you.


Yes, I used that site a lot. Look how he describes himself on his homepage. :arrow: http://www.bjorner.com/ :P

Here's another useful one, also based, I think, in Europe.
http://hisbobness.info/


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PostPosted: Fri March 9th, 2012, 17:33 GMT 
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From an interview with David Brown (Brazzaville), who is quite popular in Russia, in a Riussian music magasine:
Question: Speaking of Boris Grebeischikov [a Russian musician]. Somethimes he was influenced a lot by Bob Dylan. Only few people can realize the importance of this man in American culture. :shock: :shock: :shock:
The cuotation can be founded there: http://fuzz-magazine.ru/articles/55-interview/4954-2012-02-09-18-50-53
We're not Europe. In this respect we are not Europe either. :(


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PostPosted: Fri March 9th, 2012, 17:41 GMT 
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certainly the most freaky fans, are European! :lol:

PD. Excuse me my very poor english!! :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Fri March 9th, 2012, 18:04 GMT 

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I think it's all the more impressive given that in mainland Europe - English isn't even the native language! It also speaks volumes about the "universality" of Bob's writing, in that the strength and uniqueness of his writing is not lost in translation.
I think it also shows how Europeans are much more educated, and much more apt to speak several languages - than us lazy Americans.

Larry Charles touched on this, in talking about Bob after working with him on M&A. He talked about about how Bob was impressed with his overseas fans, Japan for instance. He used the Japanese band doing "MY Back Pages" for one of the opening songs for the movie. The Larry Charles interview, in my opinion, is one of the best I've ever read about Bob's writing technique, etc.


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PostPosted: Fri March 9th, 2012, 18:08 GMT 
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As far as I know, here in France we don't have that much fans. I mean, most people do know who the guy is, but I bet they heard Blowin in the wind once in their life and that's it.
Maybe it's a generational fact : a few months ago I was searchin for some Dylan biography in a store, and an old woman came to me and we talked about him, she said it was nice to see that the man still have some young fans, cuz he represented her own youth. Great memory.

Anyway, I think too that the fact he speaks in another language than ours is kind of fascinating, words always seem more beautiful.


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PostPosted: Fri March 9th, 2012, 18:13 GMT 
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I don't know if we appreciate him more. We probably appreciate him differently. It's hard to tell. I've never seen people sleeping in their seats during a show here, like I saw in NYC. But I guess if you buy a ticket, you can do that. However, I don't really think fans are better or worse anywhere. Yes, we do have a lot of diehard tourgoers here.... I was surprised to see some stats posted on here a few days ago that the UK is not Bob's most played country in Europe - it's Germany. I didn't know that, I guess I figured since he toured there in the '60s and only first played here in '78, the UK must have gotten more shows, but not so. I'm glad to get the chance to go to lots of shows each year here in Europe. But how do you measure appreciation? By websites created, shows attended, boots collected, books written and read? We're all different and we all appreciate him in our own special way, anywhere in the world, young and old, ModBobbers and NonModBobbers, but he touched all of our lives in some way, and that's what connects us. Thanks, Bob!


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PostPosted: Fri March 9th, 2012, 18:24 GMT 
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chrome horse wrote:
I think it's all the more impressive given that in mainland Europe - English isn't even the native language! It also speaks volumes about the "universality" of Bob's writing, in that the strength and uniqueness of his writing is not lost in translation.
I think it also shows how Europeans are much more educated, and much more apt to speak several languages - than us lazy Americans.


Do you speak other languages, chrome horse? I don't know how it is for others, but I don't consciously translate Bob's writings or other texts in my mind, i.e. I rarely think about what the German words would be. I think that's when meaning gets lost, when you do that. It's hard to describe, but it probably has to do with some kind of intuitive sense of understanding the meaning of something, as opposed to just the words. Of course, Bob taught me a lot of words and phrases and other language related things. I enjoy language, and I'm interested in how it works, so that might be seen as an advantage, but really I've seen many audiences here where people seemed to have a very limited knowledge of English, and that doesn't keep them from appreciating Bob's art. The focus in Dylan studies is so much on the words that it is often overlooked that the music itself, and also I guess to a good degree the image are very attractive factors.


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PostPosted: Fri March 9th, 2012, 18:42 GMT 

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Johanna Parker wrote:
chrome horse wrote:
Do you speak other languages, chrome horse? I don't know how it is for others, but I don't consciously translate Bob's writings or other texts in my mind, i.e. I rarely think about what the German words would be. I think that's when meaning gets lost, when you do that. It's hard to describe, but it probably has to do with some kind of intuitive sense of understanding the meaning of something, as opposed to just the words. Of course, Bob taught me a lot of words and phrases and other language related things. I enjoy language, and I'm interested in how it works, so that might be seen as an advantage, but really I've seen many audiences here where people seemed to have a very limited knowledge of English, and that doesn't keep them from appreciating Bob's art. The focus in Dylan studies is so much on the words that it is often overlooked that the music itself, and also I guess to a good degree the image are very attractive factors.


You had to ask that??? I took three years of French in high school. I learned one phrase real well - "Je ne sais pas"(I don't know!).

You make a good point here and it reminds of another major debate in the Dylan community. It's the "sound" crowd versus the "content" crowd. There was a debate a while back that kind of shocked me. A lot of people said they've always enjoyed his voice the most, even now, and that was the biggest thing for them in their Dylan experience - just the sound of his voice, as opposed to tripping out on the lyrics themselves. For me - it is both, but I was fascinated by this revelation.

And of course, there is the other big debate - the phony Dylan protest singer versus the actually feeling committed protest singer. "Opportunist" versus actually feeling what he is singing about. This will be an entire thread.


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PostPosted: Fri March 9th, 2012, 18:51 GMT 
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Hah! Just when I thought we were starting to get along. :P
But yes, let's have a new thread for that and I'll take a minute and get it together before I join the debate.


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PostPosted: Fri March 9th, 2012, 18:59 GMT 

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Johanna Parker wrote:
Hah! Just when I thought we were starting to get along. :P
But yes, let's have a new thread for that and I'll take a minute and get it together before I join the debate.


It's a good subject, and to your credit, you have made me look at it in a new way. For example, I see a whole new strength in Bob Dylan that I couldn't have even imagine existed. This is that people like you, and others I know, who claim the protest songs were basically a marketing gimmick etc, and he was an opportunist(and there is evidence to back that up), yet you are totally dedicated to him - probably more so than me! Fascinating. And I do thank you for this revelation.


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PostPosted: Fri March 9th, 2012, 19:02 GMT 
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There's a lot of Norwegian fans, we even have a study at a university where you can take a bachelor's degree in "Dylanology" :shock:


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PostPosted: Fri March 9th, 2012, 19:08 GMT 

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SirDogg wrote:
There's a lot of Norwegian fans, we even have a study at a university where you can take a bachelor's degree in "Dylanology" :shock:


That's pretty cool. I often say, "I have an advanced degree in Bob Dylan!", but I'm joking.

I've also pointed out many times, that in arguing, debating etc., having Bob Dylan's lyrics at your disposal is, rhetorically speaking, like having the US Army on your side.


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PostPosted: Fri March 9th, 2012, 19:19 GMT 
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I will reply to you later, gotta make some good news phone calls.... ttyl. :)


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PostPosted: Fri March 9th, 2012, 19:31 GMT 

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SirDogg wrote:
There's a lot of Norwegian fans, we even have a study at a university where you can take a bachelor's degree in "Dylanology" :shock:


U are joking, right? Which university would that be?


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PostPosted: Fri March 9th, 2012, 19:34 GMT 
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According to Bob himself this could be the case. He said something like that in Frankfurt/Germany in 2000 for whatever reason. Maybe he was just polite :D

I've been to a number of concerts in Europe (Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, France, Switzland, Austria, Czech Republic, Wales) and my impression was that the appreciation of the Artist did not depend on the country so much, but rather how the venue was laid out, especially if it was GA (maybe including free choice of seats, which occasionally was the case) or if was reserved seating.

Standing at or near the rails means much more concentration on the performance and only few distractions (if you are close to some lunatic who shouts "Hurricane" all the time or, even worse, is screaming inarticulated sounds loud enough to hurt your eardrums).

Reserved seating can be a pain in the ass. There's always the risc of beeing in the neighbourhood of some maroons who talk office or the next holiday, then turn to you and ask the title of the song Bob is playing. This happens more often when you are way back from the stage (don't ask mem why I had the experience of this in the first place) but can also happen in front rows.

That said, I observed by listening to boots, that in America there is often more audience talk during songs than it is in Europe. My impression, but I can't tell if this has to do with appreciation or rather with the situation tapers have to deal with in the US.

Btw, my impression is also that boots from Australia are often of lower quality than European ones.


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PostPosted: Fri March 9th, 2012, 19:43 GMT 
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http://www.elcorreoweb.es/cultura/08538 ... /bob/dylan

University Of Seville, Spain

sorry the article is in Spanish


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