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PostPosted: Fri October 17th, 2014, 20:13 GMT 

Joined: Mon August 28th, 2006, 20:35 GMT
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Will there be a 50th Anniversary Collection 1964?

Have those copyright issues in Europe been resolved? Should I give up hope on a 1964 set in November or December? I love the 1962 and 1963 sets (plus the Beatles official bootleg that came out on iTunes), and I'd love this to be a yearly happening from now on.


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PostPosted: Fri October 17th, 2014, 20:23 GMT 
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Not for the next 25 (I think) years. Though there's not much there anyway for '64....


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PostPosted: Fri October 17th, 2014, 21:29 GMT 
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If they think they can make a buck off it...sure, why not.


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PostPosted: Fri October 17th, 2014, 21:33 GMT 
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We're talking 9 max complete takes 4 of which are "Denise" from ASOBD + Royal Festival Hall was professionally recorded if the tapes exist What else?
2/3 of Newport '64 hasn't been released of course only on film + JB Vanguard albums


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PostPosted: Fri October 17th, 2014, 22:35 GMT 

Joined: Thu September 25th, 2008, 13:21 GMT
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here are the issues that no one seems to have brought up:

1. there was some confusion as to whether new changes in the law in Europe would make the need for these packages on the part of the record company disappear. i can't really find a straight answer on this. we may have only gotten the two years worth and can expect no further releases of this sort.
2. as far as the pipe dream of getting "Denise," etc. and other uncirculated stuff, my impression was that, on the second release last year, they got their act together. meaning that there were only releasing the stuff that was in circulation. i think that we only got a small handful of uncirculated tracks on the second set because Columbia/Sony figured this out whereas on the first set they pretty much released everything they had and we got tons of uncirculated material.

i'd be happy to be wrong on either count!

-justin


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PostPosted: Fri October 17th, 2014, 22:47 GMT 
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>>If they think they can make a buck off it...sure, why not.


Huh?
If they make a decent profit and again bring us something new, I think that's great! TIA!


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PostPosted: Fri October 17th, 2014, 22:50 GMT 
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Rumoured recording session with Joan Baez, including three duets: Mama You Been On My Mind, Costa Bravos and All I Really Wanna Do.


Yes please!


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PostPosted: Fri October 17th, 2014, 23:20 GMT 
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I thought they had already skipped straight to 1967


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PostPosted: Fri October 17th, 2014, 23:28 GMT 

Joined: Mon August 28th, 2006, 20:35 GMT
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notdarkyet2 wrote:
2. as far as the pipe dream of getting "Denise," etc. and other uncirculated stuff, my impression was that, on the second release last year, they got their act together. meaning that there were only releasing the stuff that was in circulation. i think that we only got a small handful of uncirculated tracks on the second set because Columbia/Sony figured this out whereas on the first set they pretty much released everything they had and we got tons of uncirculated material.

-justin



That is a great point -- as much as I love the 1963 set, there's clearly some material missing. The 1962 set had some mind-blowingly great studio work that I didn't even suspect. They mighta been sloppy on the 1962 set and put too much out there, thereby shooting themselves in the foot as far as monetizing the stuff in the future.

Although who am I kidding? If they assembled that same stuff as a wide release next year, they'd still get my money.


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PostPosted: Sat October 18th, 2014, 07:45 GMT 
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I think the way the 62 and 63 collections were released, it never was about making money. It was just a legal issue, to close some loopholes that apparently existed in the european copyright laws. It seems the situation changed for the years beginning in 1964.

There is another thing I have been wondering about: why was Bob so inactive in 1964? Compared to 63 and 65, there really isn't that much that could be released. One recording session and much fewer live appearances than in the years before and after. Unless there are any unknown recordings (and I doubt that there are that many for that year), 1964 was a very unproductive year for Bob.


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PostPosted: Sat October 18th, 2014, 08:50 GMT 
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He wasn't in the studio. Wrote. Sorted out romantic life for a while. Took to the road ( 41 gigs at least)
Lots of French symbolists and hash to a level never seen again.
Road trips, European holidays
Hanging out with Eric Von Schmidt and the "entourage" formed in this time


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PostPosted: Sat October 18th, 2014, 11:38 GMT 

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apparently there will be a '1964 copyright' release.


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PostPosted: Sat October 18th, 2014, 11:57 GMT 
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oldfan wrote:
apparently there will be a '1964 copyright' release.

That's great:)
Where did you read this news?


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PostPosted: Sat October 18th, 2014, 12:42 GMT 
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leavinclaud wrote:
Lots of French symbolists and hash to a level never seen again.


:lol:


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PostPosted: Sat October 18th, 2014, 16:46 GMT 
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ragman99 wrote:
If they think they can make a buck off it...sure, why not.

Selling 100 copies is making a buck?


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PostPosted: Sat October 18th, 2014, 17:39 GMT 

Joined: Sun May 18th, 2008, 18:26 GMT
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leavinclaud wrote:
oldfan wrote:
apparently there will be a '1964 copyright' release.

That's great:)
Where did you read this news?


lol….cannot reveal sources…

seriously tho - it will be out…i assume before 2016 - but i do not know when.


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PostPosted: Sat October 18th, 2014, 21:00 GMT 

Joined: Sat September 13th, 2014, 00:45 GMT
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Location: on the outskirts
awesome news oldfan! i love everything from 64. incredible year for dylan stuff.
rumoured joan baez session surprises me. would love to hear it if it exists tho.


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PostPosted: Mon October 20th, 2014, 13:26 GMT 

Joined: Mon October 24th, 2011, 13:27 GMT
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seriously tho - it will be out…i assume before 2016 - but i do not know when.[/quote]


Thanks for the info, oldfan.

Should that be '...before 2015?'

Also, what I am wondering about it: - the EU Directive regarding extension of the copyright from 50 to 70 was decided as early as 12 September 2011, but wasn't in effect in the UK until it was implemented last year. Does this mean that the 50 year PD remains in effect in any EU country that has not implemented the 70 year rule yet (which would explain the occurrence of further Copyright Extension releases - and a 1964 CE volume)? Can anyone shed some further light on this?


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PostPosted: Mon October 20th, 2014, 14:11 GMT 

Joined: Wed September 16th, 2009, 03:13 GMT
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notdarkyet2 wrote:
here are the issues that no one seems to have brought up:

1. there was some confusion as to whether new changes in the law in Europe would make the need for these packages on the part of the record company disappear. i can't really find a straight answer on this. we may have only gotten the two years worth and can expect no further releases of this sort.
2. as far as the pipe dream of getting "Denise," etc. and other uncirculated stuff, my impression was that, on the second release last year, they got their act together. meaning that there were only releasing the stuff that was in circulation. i think that we only got a small handful of uncirculated tracks on the second set because Columbia/Sony figured this out whereas on the first set they pretty much released everything they had and we got tons of uncirculated material.

i'd be happy to be wrong on either count!

-justin


Isn't the sole purpose of these sets to extend the copyright on previously unreleased recordings? If there's live or studio material that exists that wasn't included on the 1962 or 1963 sets (and not previously released and copyrighted) they are fair game from a 'public domain' standpoint in certain countries in the EU.

So if Columbia decides to put out material in a huge mass market 1962 box set in 2015, any material that they release that wasn't issued prior to January 2013 would still be in the public domain. Follow the law and you can take those tracks and issue them on your own label even though they weren't circulating widely prior to being officially released by Bob.

Look at The Beatles. They issued a digital 'bootleg' set in 2013 with a number of studio tracks, demos, and BBC recordings that was offered via iTunes. Doing so extended the copyright on these recordings so that they wouldn't fall into the public domain...so you can I can't scoop up the tracks released on that set without violating their copyright. But they failed to include a number of studio takes of a number of songs including "I Saw Her Standing There", "I Want To Hold Your Hand", "Thank You Girl", etc., and now these recordings are 50+ years old and unreleased officially and they are fair game. So we are now seeing PD releases of these stray tracks that they missed:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Work-Progress-O ... he+beatles

It appears that the BD 64 set will not be as fruitful as prior years, but The Beatles 64 set (if they want to protect their copyright) could be awesome. And hey! I wonder what we'll get from Brian Wilson again this year -- and Motown. Anyone else?

Mike


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PostPosted: Mon October 20th, 2014, 14:57 GMT 

Joined: Thu September 25th, 2008, 13:21 GMT
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Mike, what I'm saying is that the Dylan 1963 set was less inclusive than the 1962 because they figured out they didn't need to release the uncirculated stuff. yes, it technically means that other companies could release it, but they would to have to get the material first and that's pretty well under lock and key now. it's not that often that anything new (studio or live) from the 1960s comes out and that's either because it is in the "inner circle" of traders that just doesn't hit the Internet or because it's in vaults and is not coming out.

-justin


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PostPosted: Mon October 20th, 2014, 15:53 GMT 

Joined: Wed September 16th, 2009, 03:13 GMT
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notdarkyet2 wrote:
Mike, what I'm saying is that the Dylan 1963 set was less inclusive than the 1962 because they figured out they didn't need to release the uncirculated stuff. yes, it technically means that other companies could release it, but they would to have to get the material first and that's pretty well under lock and key now. it's not that often that anything new (studio or live) from the 1960s comes out and that's either because it is in the "inner circle" of traders that just doesn't hit the Internet or because it's in vaults and is not coming out.

-justin


I get ya, but they've still lost the copyright and it's in the public domain -- even though no one has access to it (yet). If they ever decide to release it from here on in it's free game as soon as it comes out. Now it's likely that Sony doesn't care and that they feel that their future product will trump any DP set that comes out after the fact, but you'd still think that they would have preferred to retain the copyright on the material. Maybe they're banking on the laws being updated in the future...so they're willing to gamble that the law will eventually come into their favor and, as long as it hasn't circulated, they'll eventually be able to release it AND retain the copyright.

Barring any change in the law, I would guess that they would need to keep putting out these sets in order to protect their recordings that currently circulate. No one should be totally shocked that we're seeing a Basement Tapes Complete set -- they're simply trying to jump ahead of the curve a bit so that they're not handcuffed into releasing all of these recordings on a cold December day in 1967 in order to protect them from going BD. There's a lot of circulating material recorded in 1965 and 1966 that has yet to be officially released -- it's not far fetched to assume that we'll deluxe boxes for this material as well. We're heading into the prime Dylan years of the '60s -- no way will the release the sessions of HWY61 and BoB on a few hundred discs to satisfy the copyright. I suppose there are reasons that a complete BoB sessions set has been rumored for years. BD Inc. is having their hand forced here a bit, but it doesn't appear that they have too many options. Use it or lose it.


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PostPosted: Mon October 20th, 2014, 17:13 GMT 

Joined: Sun May 18th, 2008, 18:26 GMT
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mikeja75 wrote:
notdarkyet2 wrote:
Mike, what I'm saying is that the Dylan 1963 set was less inclusive than the 1962 because they figured out they didn't need to release the uncirculated stuff. yes, it technically means that other companies could release it, but they would to have to get the material first and that's pretty well under lock and key now. it's not that often that anything new (studio or live) from the 1960s comes out and that's either because it is in the "inner circle" of traders that just doesn't hit the Internet or because it's in vaults and is not coming out.

-justin


I get ya, but they've still lost the copyright and it's in the public domain -- even though no one has access to it (yet). If they ever decide to release it from here on in it's free game as soon as it comes out. Now it's likely that Sony doesn't care and that they feel that their future product will trump any DP set that comes out after the fact, but you'd still think that they would have preferred to retain the copyright on the material. Maybe they're banking on the laws being updated in the future...so they're willing to gamble that the law will eventually come into their favor and, as long as it hasn't circulated, they'll eventually be able to release it AND retain the copyright.

Barring any change in the law, I would guess that they would need to keep putting out these sets in order to protect their recordings that currently circulate. No one should be totally shocked that we're seeing a Basement Tapes Complete set -- they're simply trying to jump ahead of the curve a bit so that they're not handcuffed into releasing all of these recordings on a cold December day in 1967 in order to protect them from going BD. There's a lot of circulating material recorded in 1965 and 1966 that has yet to be officially released -- it's not far fetched to assume that we'll deluxe boxes for this material as well. We're heading into the prime Dylan years of the '60s -- no way will the release the sessions of HWY61 and BoB on a few hundred discs to satisfy the copyright. I suppose there are reasons that a complete BoB sessions set has been rumored for years. BD Inc. is having their hand forced here a bit, but it doesn't appear that they have too many options. Use it or lose it.


Basement Tapes are not primarily being released because of copyright reasons - as i understand.

I do have a question for anyone who knows - HONESTLY KNOWS. Are you saying that outtakes of Blonde On Blonde, for example - must be copyrighted? I mean outtakes of released songs? Or must songs not released but rehearsed and on tape at the sessions - they must be copyrighted?


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PostPosted: Mon October 20th, 2014, 17:59 GMT 

Joined: Thu September 25th, 2008, 13:21 GMT
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judging from the copyright releases by both The Beatles and Bob Dylan, i think the outtakes need to be as well.

although i could be wrong.

-justin


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PostPosted: Tue October 21st, 2014, 01:22 GMT 

Joined: Wed September 16th, 2009, 03:13 GMT
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oldfan wrote:
Basement Tapes are not primarily being released because of copyright reasons - as i understand.


Sure they are. Sony isn't going to put that in the press release, but that the copyright situation in the EU is a concern. Time is running short on all of this unreleased material from the 60s. If they want to control the copyright and make some decent money off it they need to get it out before it falls into the public domain.

Most of the basement tape material is in circulation amoung collectors. If Sony didn't do this set before December 31, 1968, the unreleased recordings would have fallen into the public domain and could have been released by anyone that wanted to jump through the hoops of releasing the material...and BD/Sony would have lost the copyright material on all of the recordings that were recorded in 1967 and not released prior to December 31, 2018.

Mike


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PostPosted: Tue October 21st, 2014, 03:09 GMT 
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>>Basement Tapes are not primarily being released because of copyright reasons - as i understand.

That's easy to believe, since the 'timing' is off. The next gusher in this legal dance would be 1964, and it's in fact reported above by Oldfan.


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