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PostPosted: Sat May 16th, 2009, 07:37 GMT 
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Joined: Fri April 10th, 2009, 07:56 GMT
Posts: 1032
Location: 'neath the stars that shine
Hey, Tupac Amaru, thx for posting that link and the MLK quote.

The footage in that video is taken from the great film Once Were Warriors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Once_Were_Warriors_(film)) and after watching it I finally understand why I feel uneasy about the BHLN video. It's not the violence as such, but what one could call the Quentin-Tarantino-attitude towards violence displayed in that video.

We do live in a violent society, and that violence shows everywhere. So why not show it in a video to a song that is about the great unknown you enter once you embark on a relationship: you take a risk, and you never know if it will be smooth sailing or if you have to deal with some nasty aspects of your partner's and your own personality. And if it gets nasty there might even be physical violence. So I really have no problem with the video showing that.

But what I do have a problem with is the little ironical touch to the video: the violence here is not just horrible, but also kinda cool, "ya know, the way he smashes her into the TV, awesome whacked out shit, dude, ya know" - that kind of cool, Tarantino cool. And that really doesn't do justice to the very real problem of violence pervading our society in all kinds of ways.

So in short: vioelnce in the video - no problem. THAT kind of violence - problem.


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PostPosted: Sat May 16th, 2009, 07:46 GMT 
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Joined: Sun April 1st, 2007, 09:49 GMT
Posts: 823
Location: Some Australian mountain range.
These recent comments are starting to sound as though this video of BHJN is a promotion from the Violence Against Women campaign. It ain't that. It's an advert for Dylan/Columbia et al.


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PostPosted: Sat May 16th, 2009, 08:17 GMT 

Joined: Wed April 11th, 2007, 04:15 GMT
Posts: 1110
Location: City of Angels
powerpete wrote:
Hey, Tupac Amaru, thx for posting that link and the MLK quote.

The footage in that video is taken from the great film Once Were Warriors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Once_Were_Warriors_(film)) and after watching it I finally understand why I feel uneasy about the BHLN video. It's not the violence as such, but what one could call the Quentin-Tarantino-attitude towards violence displayed in that video.

We do live in a violent society, and that violence shows everywhere. So why not show it in a video to a song that is about the great unknown you enter once you embark on a relationship: you take a risk, and you never know if it will be smooth sailing or if you have to deal with some nasty aspects of your partner's and your own personality. And if it gets nasty there might even be physical violence. So I really have no problem with the video showing that.

But what I do have a problem with is the little ironical touch to the video: the violence here is not just horrible, but also kinda cool, "ya know, the way he smashes her into the TV, awesome whacked out shit, dude, ya know" - that kind of cool, Tarantino cool. And that really doesn't do justice to the very real problem of violence pervading our society in all kinds of ways.

So in short: vioelnce in the video - no problem. THAT kind of violence - problem.


It's not a video, it's a short film and there are all different kinds of films. i personally like this film because I'm
slightly disturbed by the violence. But only because of the song and the metaphor that it illustrates throughout the film.
It's a movie, everybody knows it's one. No one's gonna think it's Ok to hit a woman because of this movie.
If they did they're nuts. Sure there's a disturbing nihilist streak that runs through the film, but also through the song as well
as the album.
The violence here is cool because it's horrible because it's a movie.
Relax. It doesn't have to do justice to the problems of violence pervading our society.
That has nothing to do with this film.
You're being very un-Bob...


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PostPosted: Sun May 17th, 2009, 14:08 GMT 

Joined: Tue May 12th, 2009, 18:23 GMT
Posts: 24
Got my signals crossed wrote:
I am quite sure that Bob takes no interest in the marketing that is done by Sony. Yes, controlling the quality and content of the music is one thing but he and his staff, I am sure, have nothing to do with exploitation by the label. The video looked cheap as well as amateurish, which is probably why they used it, the tossers. If it had been good theater, the content could have been interesting and provocative, not just sorted and ugly. Remember in Don't Look Back when Bob refused to take responsibility for the guy who threw the glass out the window, "I have enough responsibility with my friends and my people..." I am happy they realized we are not just sheep who will take any crap they want to dish out. We are opinionated and really very smart. We stood together and forced them to take some responsibility for the lack of quality of their lets face it - merchandising. Sony, Bob doesn't need any of your bull shit merchandising. Screw Sony.


FANTASTIC POST! i agree totally with you...the vidoe looks cheap...this is what it is...I remember Bob's quote: “I think of all that I do as my writing. It cheapens it to call it anything else but writing.” This video is cheap and it is completely out from his writing (which includes his songs, his poems, his painting, his films). And he doesn't need this merchandising. All the people here that says we against the video are un-Bob, better go and look better at Bob's art, writing and interviews.


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PostPosted: Sun May 17th, 2009, 17:37 GMT 
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Joined: Sun May 27th, 2007, 20:32 GMT
Posts: 694
Location: a million miles from you
ClaudioEz22 wrote:
I'm very offended with the 'Cross the Green Mountain video! Who dares to put war images and dead people in a music video? So disgusting...


Maybe because 'Cross the Green Mountan', was written for a Civil War movie 'Gods and Generals'?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNSj35CDuRY


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PostPosted: Sun May 17th, 2009, 20:34 GMT 
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Joined: Thu May 14th, 2009, 10:13 GMT
Posts: 1535
Location: Venice London
I like this video.

It gives a sarcastic tone to the lyrics which sound instead quite dull


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PostPosted: Wed May 20th, 2009, 02:44 GMT 
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Joined: Sun November 27th, 2005, 14:12 GMT
Posts: 1093
Oh my God, Dylan can’t make a mistake. He’s my hero!!

“Oh, the leaves began to fallin'
And the seas began to part,
And the people that confronted him were many.
And he was told but these few words,
Which opened up his heart,
"If ye cannot bring good news, then don't bring any."


Having been a long-time admirer of Bob Dylan, I’ve always tried to take these words to heart, but sadly I agree with most of what’s been said. I think the gratuitous violence in this video and then pairing it with a fine love song on top of that was a serious “miscalculation.” Maybe Mr. Dylan meant to send it as a message to someone to leave him alone ( “it's not always easy kicking someone out”), in which case it was highly successful in a ghoulish, scary Phil Spector kind of way… but then some things last longer than you think they will.”

To be honest, I actually wept when I saw it, I was so upset. Ridiculous y’all will say and believe me I have often thought of myself in the same light!

Maybe it was done without his knowledge, even though that sounds suspiciously like “damage control,” but one wants to give the man the benefit of a doubt.

Or, he intended it to be purely symbolic (I know, I know--quite a stretch, as there is no subtlety or anything I saw that could be interpreted as symbolism) and maybe the filmmakers just got carried away.

It it was Bob's intention to tell a story not meant to be taken literally, maybe this couple torture each other mentally (and only think of doing the things depicted) because although they have a bond, their respective deficiencies & limitations (less than desirable individual personality traits such as stupidity, stubbornness, insecurity, jealousy, distrustfulness, etc.) cause their train to veer off the tracks and derail. Say the man does “love” the woman, desires her, admires her, but feels inadequate because in his mind he’s built her up to be larger than life…SO, although he managed to seduce her with pretty words and promises, he keeps her “imprisoned” by making himself physically unavailable to her. She also has inaccurate impressions and unrealistic expectations and whereas she also loves him, she is agonizingly frustrated and sorrowful about his behavior -- but is unable to act and change anything.

Occasionally, he leaves her to be with others to satisfy his “needs” and she “escapes” to try get away from him emotionally and attempts to “move on”. However, this never last overly long and they find themselves coming back to each other time and again, addicted to the feelings of ardent desire for each other, the remembrance the vows of love they’ve declared in the past, as well as the passionate attention and possessiveness they crave and can’t get from someone else.

Despite an obsessive attraction, both essentially feel at the mercy of fate and are overwhelmed by their feelings and a situation they’ve created, but don’t understand and can’t cope with. If there are drugs and alcohol involved, as the vidoe indicates, that just aggravates and escalates the situation (& the devil, it's said, is delighted to witness people enjoy depraved cruelty in any form) ("I think we better talk this over/Maybe when we both get sober".)

Perhaps their intense conflicts have arisen from obscure, powerful, esoteric forces, in which case a resolution could be attained by finding and consulting yogis, psychiatrists, astrologers or parapsychologists they feel they can trust (but, of course, seeking advice is only effective if it’s followed).

Feeling helpless, impotent, lost and hopeless, they blame each other and the only “power” that manifests is to hurt and blame each other--since their love has failed miserably to make them happy. They then forgive each other, until the next time and so it becomes an ever increasingly terrible and insupportable pattern. This cycle, this loop, as in real domestic violence, is endlessly repeated and escalates intolerably each time...until one or both die. Love Sick

But heh, what do I know?

"Eventually we'll hang ourselves on all this tangled rope."
***
"Oh, babe, time for a new transition
I wish I was a magician.
I would wave a wand and tie back the bond
That we've both gone beyond."


”Let's forgive each other darlin', let's go down to the greenwood glen “


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