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 Post subject: Re: weird lyrics
PostPosted: Thu August 14th, 2014, 06:23 GMT 
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BTW I just realised the OP started a weird lyrics thread. I should have started my own off-putting lyrics thread. Apologies:-(


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu August 14th, 2014, 15:51 GMT 
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Stranger nobody sees wrote:
Ah, but I was so much older then
I'm younger than that now.


Oh no! This is just great!


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu August 14th, 2014, 15:54 GMT 
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mousetrouble wrote:
Like A Rolling Stone :

"When you ain't got nothing, you got noting to lose"



Tryin' To Get To Heaven :

"When you think you've lost everything, you find out you can always lose a little more"


Then, You never have NOTHING. You always have something. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: weird lyrics
PostPosted: Thu August 14th, 2014, 16:32 GMT 
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Location: in the land where dreams are made....
This is funny!

Why would anyone think that Dylan writes weird lyrics.... :roll: :D they are just not "used to" lyrics..... after all.... even "keep on keeping on" must have seemed strange the first time out..... and now it is like part of the English language.... 8) and how about "the times they are a changin'" ....... that one has been re-used so many places it is now common place....

They weirdest thing about Dylan lyrics is that there are so many things he started that become common and then there are so many people that don't realize they were first Dylan lyrics..... :wink:

**Unless of course they are part of all that stuff he steals off of obscure, long lost, sources. Just thought I would get that in before somebody else does... :P


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 Post subject: Re: weird lyrics
PostPosted: Thu August 14th, 2014, 17:48 GMT 

Joined: Fri March 2nd, 2007, 02:29 GMT
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Lily Rose wrote:
even "keep on keeping on" must have seemed strange the first time out..... and now it is like part of the English language...


That particular phrase actually dates back to the 1910s, if you can believe it.


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 Post subject: Re: weird lyrics
PostPosted: Thu August 14th, 2014, 18:16 GMT 
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'Isis' has some weird lyrics:

"The dividing line ran through the center of town
I hitched up my pony to a post on the right
Went in to a laundry to wash my clothes down

The wind it was howlin’ and the snow was outrageous
We chopped through the night and we chopped through the dawn
When he died I was hopin’ that it wasn’t contagious"



I must say I have never "washed my clothes down". The "outrageous / contagious" rhyme is either crap or genius, I can't decide which...


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 Post subject: Re: weird lyrics
PostPosted: Thu August 14th, 2014, 18:21 GMT 

Joined: Thu December 9th, 2004, 16:38 GMT
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Location: Canadee-i-o
panther wrote:
'Isis' has some weird lyrics:

"The dividing line ran through the center of town
I hitched up my pony to a post on the right
Went in to a laundry to wash my clothes down

The wind it was howlin’ and the snow was outrageous
We chopped through the night and we chopped through the dawn
When he died I was hopin’ that it wasn’t contagious"



I must say I have never "washed my clothes down". The "outrageous / contagious" rhyme is either crap or genius, I can't decide which...


Bob was big on audacious rhymes for a while there. They're splashed all over Street Legal (generally to poor effect, but then again I'm no fan of that album) and surface memorably again on "Angelina" (most crazily, "subpoena/Angelina" :lol: ) and "Groom" ("January/Beunos Aires"). In the context of Isis, "outrageous/contagious" makes a lot of sense and seems fun. Such rhyming stunts can become intrusive, though, and perhaps serve as a substitute for inspiration, an attempt to trick the listener into thinking they're hearing something great. I personally regard "Angelina" as close to a masterpiece, but your view of the song has to come to grips with the "subpoena" rhyme. There's no getting around it.


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 Post subject: Re: weird lyrics
PostPosted: Thu August 14th, 2014, 18:38 GMT 
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leavinclaud wrote:
I really have a problem whenever Bob's lines leave the impression he really despises science and technology.
Especially the Charles Darwin verse in High Water. I don't think there is any doubt which point of view the writer is open to, and that he sides with the judge. Wrong-headed. Brilliantly sung though

What are you saying? Dylan doesn't believe in evolution? :? That he had some agenda when he wrote these lines:

They got Charles Darwin trapped out there on Highway Five
Judge says to the High Sheriff,
“I want him dead or alive
Either one, I don’t care”
High water everywhere


Give me a break, please.


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 Post subject: Re: weird lyrics
PostPosted: Fri August 15th, 2014, 02:51 GMT 

Joined: Sun November 27th, 2005, 01:09 GMT
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err listen to the version on TTS from 2003 with that darwin verse. he practically spits it out.. 'im preaching to word of god im putting out your eyes' ...indeed


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 Post subject: Re: weird lyrics
PostPosted: Fri August 15th, 2014, 04:44 GMT 
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Lone Pilgrim wrote:
...surface memorably again on "Angelina" (most crazily, "subpoena/Angelina" :lol: )
The one that sounds most forced to me in that (good but not great) song is the previously mentioned "concertina" / "Angelina". You get the feeling Bob found "concertina" or "subpoena" in his rhyming dictionary (which he apparently discovered the existence of in 1975) and challenged himself to write a song with all the rhymes listed.
Lone Pilgrim wrote:
and "Groom" ("January/Buenos Aires").

I've posted about this rhyme before! Love it!!
Lone Pilgrim wrote:
an attempt to trick the listener into thinking they're hearing something great.
I suspect what Dylan has in mind with some of these rhymes is to make us wonder if he's a genius or an idiot. He enjoys that kind of thing.


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 Post subject: Re: weird lyrics
PostPosted: Fri August 15th, 2014, 21:14 GMT 

Joined: Thu December 9th, 2004, 16:38 GMT
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panther wrote:
Lone Pilgrim wrote:
...surface memorably again on "Angelina" (most crazily, "subpoena/Angelina" :lol: )
The one that sounds most forced to me in that (good but not great) song is the previously mentioned "concertina" / "Angelina". You get the feeling Bob found "concertina" or "subpoena" in his rhyming dictionary (which he apparently discovered the existence of in 1975) and challenged himself to write a song with all the rhymes listed.
Lone Pilgrim wrote:
and "Groom" ("January/Buenos Aires").

I've posted about this rhyme before! Love it!!
Lone Pilgrim wrote:
an attempt to trick the listener into thinking they're hearing something great.
I suspect what Dylan has in mind with some of these rhymes is to make us wonder if he's a genius or an idiot. He enjoys that kind of thing.


Interesting that he discovered the rhyming dictionary in '75, because it's in the next few years that these gaudy rhymes start to show up. And they kind of disappear thereafter, like he came to tire of the game. Remember that interview in "Song Talk" when he commented that rhyming in itself is ultimately empty? ("No one's gonna care if you rhyme 'represent' with 'ferment,' or words to that effect). He knew of what he spake.

I've come to terms with both rhymes in "Angelina." "Concertina" always seemed natural to me (maybe because the image of the chained dancing monkey seems consistent with the song's apparent concerns with enslavement?), but "subpoena" is just too outrageous to ignore. In the end, the song wins me over with its sheer visionary power, but I can understand others not getting past those cases of author intrusion. The "Groom" rhyme is a blast and fits the song's over-the-top madness; try saying that couplet out loud, though, and you're liable to get a lot of winces.

And that's the real problem with such crazy rhymes; they amount to the author poking himself into the narrative and leering, "look, Ma, aren't I rhyming goooOOOOd?" For sure, the head games Bob has played with his listeners and audience have been fun over the years, but allowing them to corrupt the songs themselves is definitely a mistake.


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 Post subject: Re: weird lyrics
PostPosted: Sat August 16th, 2014, 17:14 GMT 
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"You know it balances on your head
Just like a mattress balances
On a bottle of wine"

i.e. - it doesn't


- nate


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 Post subject: Re: weird lyrics
PostPosted: Sat August 16th, 2014, 20:02 GMT 
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^That's the point.


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 Post subject: Re: weird lyrics
PostPosted: Sun August 17th, 2014, 15:59 GMT 

Joined: Thu December 9th, 2004, 16:38 GMT
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That's not a "weird" line - it's one of his funniest!


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 Post subject: Re: weird lyrics
PostPosted: Mon August 18th, 2014, 05:10 GMT 

Joined: Mon April 6th, 2009, 20:28 GMT
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Location: I was there for a party once
I was thinking about Alicia Keys, couldn't keep from crying
When she was born in Hell's Kitchen, I was living down the line
I'm wondering where in the world Alicia Keys could be
I been looking for her even clear through Tennessee

Beats me.

To take it all at face value, when AK was born it was 1981 . . .


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 Post subject: Re: weird lyrics
PostPosted: Mon August 18th, 2014, 05:14 GMT 

Joined: Mon April 6th, 2009, 20:28 GMT
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Location: I was there for a party once
Lone Pilgrim wrote:
panther wrote:

Bob was big on audacious rhymes for a while there. They're splashed all over Street Legal (generally to poor effect, but then again I'm no fan of that album) and surface memorably again on "Angelina" (most crazily, "subpoena/Angelina" :lol: ) and "Groom" ("January/Beunos Aires"). In the context of Isis, "outrageous/contagious" makes a lot of sense and seems fun. Such rhyming stunts can become intrusive, though, and perhaps serve as a substitute for inspiration, an attempt to trick the listener into thinking they're hearing something great. I personally regard "Angelina" as close to a masterpiece, but your view of the song has to come to grips with the "subpoena" rhyme. There's no getting around it.


See, I'll never get this. It's the love of audacious rhyme that drew me to Dylan in the first place. I don't find them at all forced; and I don't believe a rhyming dictionary has anything to do with it.

The rhyming in Street-Legal is fantastic.

I guess we just disagree.


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 Post subject: Re: weird lyrics
PostPosted: Mon August 18th, 2014, 05:36 GMT 
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panther wrote:
I suspect what Dylan has in mind with some of these rhymes is to make us wonder if he's a genius or an idiot. He enjoys that kind of thing.

No... No, that is not what he has in mind! (Does anybody have a *biting knuckles in frustration emoticon*?!)


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 Post subject: Re: weird lyrics
PostPosted: Mon August 18th, 2014, 14:43 GMT 

Joined: Thu December 9th, 2004, 16:38 GMT
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Foggy wrote:

See, I'll never get this. It's the love of audacious rhyme that drew me to Dylan in the first place. I don't find them at all forced; and I don't believe a rhyming dictionary has anything to do with it.

The rhyming in Street-Legal is fantastic.

I guess we just disagree.


Well, I can't stand SL. Other than, of course, "Guard" and "Senor," I find it an embarrassing exercise in self-parody and excruciatingly sung to boot. (Few things are more teeth-grinding to me than Dylan thinking he's being brilliant when he's not; "Something There is About You" being another notable instance). So yeah, we'll just have to disagree. In terms of the wider subject of Bob and Rhyming, I wouldn't for one second deny that Dylan has a true gift for rhyme, a rare ear for it - and in general I love his rhyming as well. But there's a difference between rhymes that delight and rhymes that amount to gaudy showing-off. My suggestion is that Dylan slips somewhat into the latter with SL and that this pattern continues here and there in his work for a few years thereafter. Even there, I wouldn't want to overstate the case. Rhyming isn't the primary problem on SL, it's just the first album where cute rhymes seem to be substituting for inspiration.


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 Post subject: Re: weird lyrics
PostPosted: Wed August 20th, 2014, 15:05 GMT 
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kybo8845 wrote:
leavinclaud wrote:
I really have a problem whenever Bob's lines leave the impression he really despises science and technology.
Especially the Charles Darwin verse in High Water. I don't think there is any doubt which point of view the writer is open to, and that he sides with the judge. Wrong-headed. Brilliantly sung though

What are you saying? Dylan doesn't believe in evolution? :? That he had some agenda when he wrote these lines:

They got Charles Darwin trapped out there on Highway Five
Judge says to the High Sheriff,
“I want him dead or alive
Either one, I don’t care”
High water everywhere


Give me a break, please.


Believe me I would so hope I'm not right, you wouldn't believe it. I can't not see it this way though. I really sense Bob's ambivalence/dismissiveness of the "folly" of research and scientific theory running through his later work. License to kill starts it of course. It's there in Nettie Moore for no obvious reason " Well the world of research gone beserk, too much paperwork" just doesn't connect with anything else in the song and the High Water verse could be further-reaching than I thought if this guy is onto something
http://www.keesdegraaf.com/index.php/17 ... sis-part-2

Isn't this so Dylanesque to have George Lewes's name misspelled in the official lyric and frame a very serious theological debate like the beginning of a corny national stereotype joke. Genius and at the same time off-the-mark


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 Post subject: Re: weird lyrics
PostPosted: Wed August 20th, 2014, 15:17 GMT 
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I find some of his violent lyrics really odd, especially the more recent ones:

If I catch my opponents ever sleepin'
I'll just slaughter them where they lie


The gun went boom and the shot rang clear
First bullet grazed his ear
Second ball went right straight in
And he bent in the middle like a twisted pin


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 Post subject: Re: weird lyrics
PostPosted: Wed August 20th, 2014, 15:55 GMT 
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movin_after_midnight wrote:
I find some of his violent lyrics really odd, especially the more recent ones:

If I catch my opponents ever sleepin'
I'll just slaughter them where they lie


The gun went boom and the shot rang clear
First bullet grazed his ear
Second ball went right straight in
And he bent in the middle like a twisted pin


Thanks for that. My thoughts on lines like these change all the time but right now this is my best attempt at being generously-spirited to see genuine artistic reasons for his choices
Well when he writes gratuitously violent lines like that line from ."Ain't Talkin'"or non-PC lines like
"play it for my flat-chested junkie whore" he's barely hiding something that's been there at least since New Pony (although it has increased). It's alienating to some but for the writer has an upside.
It gives him the patented "nasty bastard" character & so much more scope/ freedom to manouvre. In the same way the anti-hero role attracts the best actors in movies.

Tin Angel's roots in the Child ballad "Little Matty Groves"explains the brutal images in that song


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 Post subject: Re: weird lyrics
PostPosted: Wed August 20th, 2014, 16:41 GMT 

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Geez, I don't have the slightest problem with the violent imagery. The line about his opponents sleeping is anything but gratuitous. The pilgrim of "Ain't Talkin," who honours a vanished God and walks the cities of the plague, isn't just a man of constant sorrow; he is a dangerous man, a man of sorrow and strife. A kind of mythic figure from the subconscious, with burning eyes and a walking cane, toothache in heel, at odds with a god-abandoned world. There's nary a false note in that entire song IMHO.

The violence in "Tin Angel," meanwhile, is absolutely integral to the song. The minute we hear the name "Henry Lee" we should twig to that. It's no more "gratuitous" than

Stagger Lee turned to Billy Lyons
Shot him right through the head
Only took one shot to kill Billy Lyons dead

As for the couplet

Set 'em up Joe, play Walking the Floor
Play it for my flat-chested junkie whore

that might be one of the very best moments on Tempest. And again, it totally suits the song, a song about a fallen place laced with both the beautiful and the dire.

In short, these lyrics are anything but weird! They're killer.


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 Post subject: Re: weird lyrics
PostPosted: Wed August 20th, 2014, 17:10 GMT 
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Thanks for going to the trouble. I fully accept "gratuitous" was the wrong word entirely.
I hadn't spotted the Henry Lee connection either.
The Scarlet town line is not close to being one of my favorites on Tempest, but I didn't claim it mar s it artistically, quite the contrary


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 Post subject: Re: weird lyrics
PostPosted: Wed August 20th, 2014, 17:29 GMT 
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Probably the entire second part of Highlands, in the restaurant scene, for me....weird, but in a good, Basement Tapes sort of way. To wit:


It must be a holiday, there’s nobody around
She studies me closely as I sit down
She got a pretty face and long white shiny legs
She says, “What’ll it be?”
I say, “I don’t know, you got any soft boiled eggs?”


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 Post subject: Re: weird lyrics
PostPosted: Wed August 20th, 2014, 18:10 GMT 
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capecod wrote:
Probably the entire second part of Highlands, in the restaurant scene, for me....weird, but in a good, Basement Tapes sort of way. To wit:


It must be a holiday, there’s nobody around
She studies me closely as I sit down
She got a pretty face and long white shiny legs
She says, “What’ll it be?”
I say, “I don’t know, you got any soft boiled eggs?”


On the recording I hear it:

"She got a pretty face and long white shiny legs
I ask her "tell me what I want..."
She says, “You probably want...hard boiled eggs.”
I said "That's right. Bring me some."
She says "We ain't got any - you picked the wrong time to come."


- nate


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