Expecting Rain
http://www.expectingrain.com/discussions/

Further discussion on The Beaten Path
http://www.expectingrain.com/discussions/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=89740
Page 3 of 4

Author:  scottw [ Sat January 21st, 2017, 14:55 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob's been stealing and deceiving again

rimbaud wrote:
Appear "quite lifeless" to whom? Certainly not to me.

Artist/writer Greg Allen has an interesting take on it. Allen participated in the group show Richteriana in 2012. The show "...attempts to examine the current canonization of Gerhard Richter, presenting six artists whose works pre-date, update, expand, and subvert 'the greatest living artist's' own."

Allen's contribution was recreations of Gerhard Richter paintings that have been destroyed and exist only in photographs.

In China there are a number of places where you can send a image of anything and they'll make an oil painting of it for you, and they'll do it cheaply too. If you want a single oil painting based off of a photo of your dog, or 5,000 paintings for your hotel chain, they'll churn them out. There are entire villages devoted to this business model. Allen sent photos of destroyed Richter paintings to China. What he got back is what appeared in the Richteriana show.

In his essay on The Asia Series Allen writes, "But it wasn't until a few months later, when I was deep in my own Destroyed Richter Paintings project, and I unrolled the first shipment of canvases from Chinese Paint Mill, that I recognized the painting style--as Bob Dylan's. The same flatness, the same traced-over-projection line, the same filled-in spaces. Whether he'd ordered them from Chinese Paint Mill or from somewhere/one else, it now seemed obvious that Dylan did not paint his paintings. Not that outsourcing his fabrication would grant Dylan anything greater than general admission at the contemporary art ball. Fling an iPhone in Chelsea, and you're bound to hit an outsourcer, a fabricator, or both. These paintings aren't any less 'Dylan's' or 'Dylans' for having been painted by someone else."

Author:  slimtimslide [ Sat January 21st, 2017, 15:08 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob's been stealing and deceiving again

:lol:

Author:  Mister.Jones [ Sat January 21st, 2017, 15:45 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob's been stealing and deceiving again

Nothing is original. Steal from anywhere that resonates with inspiration or fuels your imagination. Devour old films, new films, music, books, paintings, photographs, poems, dreams, random conversations, Kenny Rogers songs, architecture, bridges, street signs, trees, clouds, bodies of water, light and shadows. Select only things to steal from that speak directly to your soul. If you do this, your work, and theft, will be authentic. Authenticity is invaluable; originality is nonexistent. And don’t bother concealing your thievery—celebrate it if you feel like it. In any case, always remember what Jean-Luc Godard said: “It’s not where you take things from—it’s where you take them to.”

Author:  Mutabor [ Sat January 21st, 2017, 16:07 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob's been stealing and deceiving again

China? Oh no! :shock: Make sure the Commander in Chief doesn't hear about that!

Author:  Sweetheart68 [ Sat January 21st, 2017, 16:43 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob's been stealing and deceiving again

AndoDoug wrote:
AndoDoug wrote:
If this is art then what is a student painting based on a photograph?

Sweetheart68 wrote:
Anyone here who doesn't think it takes effort and skill to reproduce an image, be it from a photo or model, look up a pic or grab a friend and paint or draw whatever and let's see how you do.
It is extremely difficult. I'm saying Bob's work has all the mediocre qualities of a student hobbyist (albeit on a more competent level than Ron Wood could ever muster), and as such his work would not be getting shown without his name attached.
Compare the transformation here to what bob does with photos.


Point taken. Too bad the truth has little effect, obviously. I won't defend Bob against made up accusations. I'm sure he has an army of lawyers to do it.

Author:  patford [ Sun January 22nd, 2017, 05:32 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob's been stealing and deceiving again

One word. Morons.

Author:  AndoDoug [ Sun January 22nd, 2017, 17:58 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob's been stealing and deceiving again

patford wrote:
One word. Morons.
Oh do tell learnèd one

Author:  MMD [ Mon January 23rd, 2017, 02:47 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob's been stealing and deceiving again

scottw wrote:
Artist/writer Greg Allen has an interesting take on it. Allen participated in the group show Richteriana in 2012. The show "...attempts to examine the current canonization of Gerhard Richter, presenting six artists whose works pre-date, update, expand, and subvert 'the greatest living artist's' own."

Allen's contribution was recreations of Gerhard Richter paintings that have been destroyed and exist only in photographs.

In China there are a number of places where you can send a image of anything and they'll make an oil painting of it for you, and they'll do it cheaply too. If you want a single oil painting based off of a photo of your dog, or 5,000 paintings for your hotel chain, they'll churn them out. There are entire villages devoted to this business model. Allen sent photos of destroyed Richter paintings to China. What he got back is what appeared in the Richteriana show.

In his essay on The Asia Series Allen writes, "But it wasn't until a few months later, when I was deep in my own Destroyed Richter Paintings project, and I unrolled the first shipment of canvases from Chinese Paint Mill, that I recognized the painting style--as Bob Dylan's. The same flatness, the same traced-over-projection line, the same filled-in spaces. Whether he'd ordered them from Chinese Paint Mill or from somewhere/one else, it now seemed obvious that Dylan did not paint his paintings. Not that outsourcing his fabrication would grant Dylan anything greater than general admission at the contemporary art ball. Fling an iPhone in Chelsea, and you're bound to hit an outsourcer, a fabricator, or both. These paintings aren't any less 'Dylan's' or 'Dylans' for having been painted by someone else."


omg. hahahahaha. Asia series. hahaha. Scott, you're dynamite.

Author:  Winter Lude [ Mon January 23rd, 2017, 05:02 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob's been stealing and deceiving again

I think it's pretty lame that he makes paintings of photographs. The world is full of original scenes, just go out side. Take a walk in the woods. You can get an app that does to photographs what Bob does.

Author:  MartinR [ Mon January 23rd, 2017, 13:21 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob's been stealing and deceiving again

My twopennies worth

Massive fan near completist his music has and continues to have huge impact on me. Still love him live even with the static set lists . Totally deserved Nobel etc etc

BUT we went to Halcyon Gallery last year and looked at the exhibition, fascinating and I loved the paintings and the smaller pencil drawings all of which were for sale. Lots of earnest arty sales people around talking about the importance of the work and the Artist etc etc .

Ushered into a private room if you enquired about purchasing , but with the small pencil drawings , and they were small , starting at about £25,000, buying anything was a non starter.

Now knowing that many of the paintings are not of where they say they are and presuming that a buyer of the pantings was having to fork out at least £100,000+ its seems to be to be a deception for sure to say they are of one scene when in fact they are of another.

Either that or its a massive COCK-UP and someone gave Dylan a loads of photos that were mis-labeled as to location etc , this to me seems the more simple and likely scenario !!

To have delibertaley mis named the pictures does not make much sense ?

Having said that maybe these paintings are worth even more now with the added controvesy !!!

Anyway for me as a fan having been to the exhibition and then to read all this from Scotts site and others is disappointing I have always been happy with his appropriation in his music he has always done it and is a genius at it. But with the pantings not so sure takes the edge off it for me

Author:  Huck27 [ Mon January 23rd, 2017, 23:09 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob's been stealing and deceiving again

Winter Lude wrote:
I think it's pretty lame that he makes paintings of photographs. The world is full of original scenes, just go out side. Take a walk in the woods. You can get an app that does to photographs what Bob does.



This is absolutely true but will it be signed by Bob Dylan ?

Author:  MMD [ Tue January 24th, 2017, 05:38 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob's been stealing and deceiving again

If you follow Scott Warmuth's posts on this, it rapidly gets a whole lot weirder than whether Dylan copied photos for the paintings. Seriously. ahahaha it's the best.

Author:  rimbaud [ Tue January 24th, 2017, 07:57 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob's been stealing and deceiving again

Winter Lude wrote:
I think it's pretty lame that he makes paintings of photographs. The world is full of original scenes, just go out side. Take a walk in the woods. You can get an app that does to photographs what Bob does.


You sound like the people who look at, say, an abstract painting and say, "I could have done that".

Well, yes, of course you could have. But you didn't.

Author:  AndoDoug [ Tue January 24th, 2017, 07:58 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob's been stealing and deceiving again

MMD wrote:
If you follow Scott Warmuth's posts on this, it rapidly gets a whole lot weirder than whether Dylan copied photos for the paintings. Seriously. ahahaha it's the best.
Are you referring to the idea that he farmed out the stuff he wanted painted to Chinese paint-laborers?

Author:  Sweetheart68 [ Tue January 24th, 2017, 08:22 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob's been stealing and deceiving again

AndoDoug wrote:
MMD wrote:
If you follow Scott Warmuth's posts on this, it rapidly gets a whole lot weirder than whether Dylan copied photos for the paintings. Seriously. ahahaha it's the best.
Are you referring to the idea that he farmed out the stuff he wanted painted to Chinese paint-laborers?


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Author:  rimbaud [ Tue January 24th, 2017, 09:13 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob's been stealing and deceiving again

AndoDoug wrote:
MMD wrote:
If you follow Scott Warmuth's posts on this, it rapidly gets a whole lot weirder than whether Dylan copied photos for the paintings. Seriously. ahahaha it's the best.
Are you referring to the idea that he farmed out the stuff he wanted painted to Chinese paint-laborers?


:lol:

I really am starting to doubt ScottW's sanity.

Author:  Sweetheart68 [ Tue January 24th, 2017, 09:18 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob's been stealing and deceiving again

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/ ... s-20140516

Author:  Mutabor [ Tue January 24th, 2017, 10:15 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob's been stealing and deceiving again

AndoDoug wrote:
MMD wrote:
If you follow Scott Warmuth's posts on this, it rapidly gets a whole lot weirder than whether Dylan copied photos for the paintings. Seriously. ahahaha it's the best.
Are you referring to the idea that he farmed out the stuff he wanted painted to Chinese paint-laborers?


Bob's creations of alternative realities, be it in Chronicles or in his visual artwork, obviously goes down very many levels, using hints and references. It is interresting and indeed amazing.

I like the idea behind the painting of the pier with a couple dressed the same colours as John Lennon and his mother in a film standing on that same pier, being painted following a photograph of that same pier, which is then being given another location and name for the painting, which means there is a work of artifice behind the actual picture. No Chinese laborer could do that! But I would never hang any of these pictures on my wall. I hate the sloppily done sky on all of them. It hurts my eyes, just like the people painted lifeless and stiff in other series, quite obviously because of limitations of the painters technique. But hey, he fakes just like Bob Dylan :D !

Author:  Winter Lude [ Tue January 24th, 2017, 17:46 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob's been stealing and deceiving again

rimbaud wrote:
Winter Lude wrote:
I think it's pretty lame that he makes paintings of photographs. The world is full of original scenes, just go out side. Take a walk in the woods. You can get an app that does to photographs what Bob does.


Quote:
You sound like the people who look at, say, an abstract painting and say, "I could have done that".
Well, yes, of course you could have. But you didn't.


Actually, I did. When I was kid I had this glass and mirror contraption that made it so I could copy things. You put a picture on one side, and blank paper on the other. You look though and trace the reflection. It yielded some pretty impressive drawings. I tricked my friends into thinking i had amazing artistic abilities. Take away the contraption and the ability went with it. I think Bob owns the same contraption. It would explain a lot.

Author:  xongsmith [ Tue January 24th, 2017, 18:59 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob's been stealing and deceiving again

Winter Lude wrote:
Actually, I did. When I was kid I had this glass and mirror contraption that made it so I could copy things. You put a picture on one side, and blank paper on the other. You look though and trace the reflection. It yielded some pretty impressive drawings. I tricked my friends into thinking i had amazing artistic abilities. Take away the contraption and the ability went with it. I think Bob owns the same contraption. It would explain a lot.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim's_Vermeer


- nate

Author:  Sweetheart68 [ Tue January 24th, 2017, 20:05 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob's been stealing and deceiving again

Artists have been using the camera obscura and camera lucida for CENTURIES. Scholars even speculate this effect was used in ancient cave paintings. Vermeer, Van Eyck, Leonardo da Vinci, Caravaggio used them. This is not new, this is not a secret.

Collage artists use magazines, photographs taken by others and painting created by other artists in their work. Reputable and respected digital collage artists use software, including filters, to create digital effects of photographs and paintings. There is a whole market in Mona Lisa pieces that have digitally altered her from a nude to a punk rocker with a mohawk.

This is not a scandal. This is not deception. If people imply otherwise I question their motives.

Author:  rimbaud [ Tue January 24th, 2017, 20:08 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob's been stealing and deceiving again

Sweetheart68 wrote:
Artists have been using the camera obscura and camera lucida for CENTURIES. Scholars even speculate this effect was used in ancient cave paintings. Vermeer, Van Eyck, Leonardo da Vinci, Caravaggio used them. This is not new, this is not a secret.

Collage artists use magazines, photographs taken by others and painting created by other artists in their work. Reputable and respected digital collage artists use software, including filters, to create digital effects of photographs and paintings. There is a whole market in Mona Lisa pieces that have digitally altered her from a nude to a punk rocker with a mohawk.

This is not a scandal. This is not deception. If people imply otherwise I question their motives.


... and their sanity.

Author:  Winter Lude [ Tue January 24th, 2017, 20:33 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob's been stealing and deceiving again

Painting optical copies of photos is all well and good as long as they're not passed off as something else. Especially photos snatched from the internet and used without the photographer's permission. Lazy and lame... It's unfortunate that Bob has decided to embarrass himself and his fans with this nonsense.

Author:  Harry Truman [ Tue January 24th, 2017, 21:20 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob's been stealing and deceiving again

Lazy and lame sums it up!

Have the Dylan apologists always been this irritating or am I just noticing it after being away?

Author:  Sweetheart68 [ Tue January 24th, 2017, 21:43 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob's been stealing and deceiving again

Winter Lude wrote:
Painting optical copies of photos is all well and good as long as they're not passed off as something else. Especially photos snatched from the internet and used without the photographer's permission. Lazy and lame... It's unfortunate that Bob has decided to embarrass himself and his fans with this nonsense.


Passed off as something else? You mean like a painting that he painted? Bob didn't say he took the picture. He painted his conception of it. It's a separate entity. It's not the photograph. Why is this so hard to understand?

Again I suspect the motives of people who seem to remain willingly ignorant of what is a common and accepted part of the art community. It's silly.

And Harry if I'm an apologist for Bob does that make you an apologist for the person purporting this ridiculous theory? If the shoe fits. Perhaps you can post another one of your little monkey photos. Just be sure you credit the photographer since you're so concerned about this issue.

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