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PostPosted: Thu March 21st, 2013, 18:12 GMT 
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I was watching Sister Rosetta Tharpe videos because yesterday was her birthday and I believe I've stumbled on at least once source for Sugar Baby. The song is called Lonesome Road and contains the lyric

Look up, look up and seek your maker
Before Gabriel blows his horn.


The melody is also very similar. Below is Sis Rosetta's version and I've also included a link to Frank Sinatra's version.

http://youtu.be/Dpe2wYcO8bc


http://youtu.be/bF6B9eb-w0Q


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PostPosted: Thu March 21st, 2013, 18:22 GMT 

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Go here to find the details of this song:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lonesome_Road

The original version I think was sung by Gene Austin in 1927


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PostPosted: Fri March 22nd, 2013, 12:30 GMT 
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Here's the Gene Austin one - and if you thought those others were similar to Sugar Baby ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5AM8xtl-uU


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PostPosted: Fri March 22nd, 2013, 17:02 GMT 
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yeah, that Gene Austin version IS Sugar Baby.

Nice work Trev/Raging_Glory....


...I'm always curious how apparent this is to his bandmates....clearly Dylan is unabashedly influenced by these people...but I wonder how educated his band is...what do you guys think?


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PostPosted: Fri March 22nd, 2013, 17:18 GMT 

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........ then, suddenly, I was invisible!!


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PostPosted: Sat March 23rd, 2013, 03:31 GMT 
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inthealley wrote:
........ then, suddenly, I was invisible!!


It must have been cold there in our shadow, inthealley. Raging glory and I were the ones with all the glory, but you were the one with all the strength. Did raging glory and I ever say that you're our hero? We can fly higher than an eagle, because you are the wind beneath our wings!


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PostPosted: Sat March 23rd, 2013, 03:33 GMT 
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Musty wrote:
yeah, that Gene Austin version IS Sugar Baby.

Nice work Trev/Raging_Glory....


...I'm always curious how apparent this is to his bandmates....clearly Dylan is unabashedly influenced by these people...but I wonder how educated his band is...what do you guys think?


I think he played them the song!


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PostPosted: Sat March 23rd, 2013, 10:01 GMT 

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Trev wrote:
inthealley wrote:
........ then, suddenly, I was invisible!!


It must have been cold there in our shadow, inthealley. Raging glory and I were the ones with all the glory, but you were the one with all the strength. Did raging glory and I ever say that you're our hero? We can fly higher than an eagle, because you are the wind beneath our wings!


thanks, Trev: I should have known YOU'D notice me; if you weren't installing a loft, that is!


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PostPosted: Wed April 10th, 2013, 16:34 GMT 

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Fantastic!! I love the Gene Austin song. Great work, the "musical map" that Dylan has created is just wonderful to follow and explore. These are great finds!


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PostPosted: Wed April 10th, 2013, 20:14 GMT 
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Trev wrote:
Musty wrote:
yeah, that Gene Austin version IS Sugar Baby.

Nice work Trev/Raging_Glory....


...I'm always curious how apparent this is to his bandmates....clearly Dylan is unabashedly influenced by these people...but I wonder how educated his band is...what do you guys think?


I think he played them the song!

Yeah on one of the "Dylan: Four One-Hour Long Radio Documentaries" with Patti Smith, one of his old guitarist from around this time, can't remember which one, said that before recording "Love & Theft," for about a year Bob would gather them all up for rehearsals, play old records by people like Dean Martin, let the band learn the songs, then they'd play them together (I think also noted that Bob knew all the words already). He said the whole band was expecting to start playing them on tour or something, but when it was time to record the next album, "Love & Theft," they realized what he had been doing: teaching them how to play in the style of all these old songs. I think they called it something like "The Dylan School of American Music."


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PostPosted: Thu April 11th, 2013, 00:08 GMT 
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thisisjohn wrote:
...one of his old guitarist from around this time, can't remember which one...

It was drummer David Kemper.

I've transcribed his remarks:
We'd go in a rehersal hall and we just would play for three days. And a lot of times before we did "Love and Theft," like I remember one period of three days where we'd play only Dean Martin songs. And we'd, you know, we'd play 'em on the record player, we'd listen to "Everybody Loves Somebody Sometime" and he'd sing it and we, then we're ready, we could do a whole, we could do a gig playing those songs. But we never, ever played them. We just polished them up and that was that. And he would do that with, um, Johnny and Jack songs and Stanley Brothers songs and, you know, real early, earlier American artists too. And he would turn us onto these things and he'd bring records in and give us tapes of these recordings with real early stuff. And then the next day at rehershal we'd run through them and learn to play them and most of them we never would play. And the first day we went in to record "Love and Theft" I know he said, "Alright, the first song we're gonna start with is this song." And he'd play it for us on his guitar. And then he would say, "You know, I want to do it in the style of this song." And he'd play an early song, and, like, we started with "Summer Days" and he'd play a song called "Rebecca" by Pete Johnson and Big Joe Turner. And then it became apparant to me that he'd been training us for, you know, a year, over a year, to learn these old styles, you know? We were far more prepared for what he had in store then had he not done, you know, gone through this procedure. We never talked about this and maybe it's just the way I'm, you know, what I took from that process, but it certainly was like going to college for me or, you know, going to the School of Bob, or the School of Americana really, you know, presented by Bob.


Last edited by scottw on Thu April 11th, 2013, 00:27 GMT, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu April 11th, 2013, 00:26 GMT 
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scottw wrote:
thisisjohn wrote:
...one of his old guitarist from around this time, can't remember which one...

It was drummer David Kemper.

I've transcribed his remarks:
We'd go in a rehersal hall and we just would play for three days. And a lot of times before we did "Love and Theft," like I remember one period of three days where we'd play only Dean Martin songs. And we'd, you know, we'd play 'em on the record player, we'd listen to "Everybody Loves Somebody Sometime" and he'd sing it and we, then we're ready, we could do a whole, we could do a gig playing those songs. But we never, ever played them. We just polished them up and that was that. And he would do that with, um, Johnny and Jack songs and Stanley Brothers songs and, you know, real early, earlier American artists too. And he would turn us onto these things and he'd bring records in and give us tapes of these recordings with real early stuff. And then the next day at rehershal we'd run through them and learn to play them and most of them we never would play. And the first day we went in to record "Love and Theft" I know he said, "Alright, the first song we're gonna start with is this song." And he'd play it for us on his guitar. And then he would say, "You know, I want to do it in the style of this song." And he'd play an early song, and, like, we started with "Summer Days" and he'd play a song called "Rebecca" by Pete Johnson and Big Joe Turner. And then it became apparant to me that he'd been training us for, you know, a year, over a year, to learn these old styles, you know? We were far more prepared for what he had in store then had he not done, you know, gone through this procedure. We never talked about this and maybe it's just the way I'm, you know, what I took from that process, but it certainly was like going to college for me or, you know, going to the School of Bob, or the School of Americana really, you know, presented by Bob.

I love this. Thanks so much.


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PostPosted: Thu April 11th, 2013, 05:32 GMT 
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scottw wrote:
thisisjohn wrote:
...one of his old guitarist from around this time, can't remember which one...

It was drummer David Kemper.

I've transcribed his remarks:
We'd go in a rehersal hall and we just would play for three days. And a lot of times before we did "Love and Theft," like I remember one period of three days where we'd play only Dean Martin songs. And we'd, you know, we'd play 'em on the record player, we'd listen to "Everybody Loves Somebody Sometime" and he'd sing it and we, then we're ready, we could do a whole, we could do a gig playing those songs. But we never, ever played them. We just polished them up and that was that. And he would do that with, um, Johnny and Jack songs and Stanley Brothers songs and, you know, real early, earlier American artists too. And he would turn us onto these things and he'd bring records in and give us tapes of these recordings with real early stuff. And then the next day at rehershal we'd run through them and learn to play them and most of them we never would play. And the first day we went in to record "Love and Theft" I know he said, "Alright, the first song we're gonna start with is this song." And he'd play it for us on his guitar. And then he would say, "You know, I want to do it in the style of this song." And he'd play an early song, and, like, we started with "Summer Days" and he'd play a song called "Rebecca" by Pete Johnson and Big Joe Turner. And then it became apparant to me that he'd been training us for, you know, a year, over a year, to learn these old styles, you know? We were far more prepared for what he had in store then had he not done, you know, gone through this procedure. We never talked about this and maybe it's just the way I'm, you know, what I took from that process, but it certainly was like going to college for me or, you know, going to the School of Bob, or the School of Americana really, you know, presented by Bob.
yep that's it haha. i was too lazy to go back and listen to get all the facts straight. he tells the story much better than i.


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PostPosted: Fri April 12th, 2013, 16:52 GMT 
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thisisjohn wrote:
scottw wrote:
It was drummer David Kemper.

I've transcribed his remarks:
We'd go in a rehersal hall and we just would play for three days. And a lot of times before we did "Love and Theft," like I remember one period of three days where we'd play only Dean Martin songs. And we'd, you know, we'd play 'em on the record player, we'd listen to "Everybody Loves Somebody Sometime" and he'd sing it and we, then we're ready, we could do a whole, we could do a gig playing those songs. But we never, ever played them. We just polished them up and that was that. And he would do that with, um, Johnny and Jack songs and Stanley Brothers songs and, you know, real early, earlier American artists too. And he would turn us onto these things and he'd bring records in and give us tapes of these recordings with real early stuff. And then the next day at rehershal we'd run through them and learn to play them and most of them we never would play. And the first day we went in to record "Love and Theft" I know he said, "Alright, the first song we're gonna start with is this song." And he'd play it for us on his guitar. And then he would say, "You know, I want to do it in the style of this song." And he'd play an early song, and, like, we started with "Summer Days" and he'd play a song called "Rebecca" by Pete Johnson and Big Joe Turner. And then it became apparant to me that he'd been training us for, you know, a year, over a year, to learn these old styles, you know? We were far more prepared for what he had in store then had he not done, you know, gone through this procedure. We never talked about this and maybe it's just the way I'm, you know, what I took from that process, but it certainly was like going to college for me or, you know, going to the School of Bob, or the School of Americana really, you know, presented by Bob.
yep that's it haha. i was too lazy to go back and listen to get all the facts straight. he tells the story much better than i.


where is this from? I would love to listen.


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PostPosted: Fri April 12th, 2013, 18:39 GMT 
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Musty wrote:
where is this from? I would love to listen.
thisisjohn wrote:
Yeah on one of the "Dylan: Four One-Hour Long Radio Documentaries" with Patti Smith...

it was a promo for the "Dylan" 3-disc set.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_QBcXPxIhF1I/T ... andocs.jpg


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PostPosted: Wed July 31st, 2013, 04:31 GMT 

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scottw wrote:
thisisjohn wrote:
...one of his old guitarist from around this time, can't remember which one...

It was drummer David Kemper.

I've transcribed his remarks:
We'd go in a rehersal hall and we just would play for three days. And a lot of times before we did "Love and Theft," like I remember one period of three days where we'd play only Dean Martin songs. And we'd, you know, we'd play 'em on the record player, we'd listen to "Everybody Loves Somebody Sometime" and he'd sing it and we, then we're ready, we could do a whole, we could do a gig playing those songs. But we never, ever played them. We just polished them up and that was that. And he would do that with, um, Johnny and Jack songs and Stanley Brothers songs and, you know, real early, earlier American artists too. And he would turn us onto these things and he'd bring records in and give us tapes of these recordings with real early stuff. And then the next day at rehershal we'd run through them and learn to play them and most of them we never would play. And the first day we went in to record "Love and Theft" I know he said, "Alright, the first song we're gonna start with is this song." And he'd play it for us on his guitar. And then he would say, "You know, I want to do it in the style of this song." And he'd play an early song, and, like, we started with "Summer Days" and he'd play a song called "Rebecca" by Pete Johnson and Big Joe Turner. And then it became apparant to me that he'd been training us for, you know, a year, over a year, to learn these old styles, you know? We were far more prepared for what he had in store then had he not done, you know, gone through this procedure. We never talked about this and maybe it's just the way I'm, you know, what I took from that process, but it certainly was like going to college for me or, you know, going to the School of Bob, or the School of Americana really, you know, presented by Bob.


wow, love this. thanks for sharing!


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PostPosted: Thu August 1st, 2013, 00:27 GMT 
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scottw wrote:
thisisjohn wrote:
...one of his old guitarist from around this time, can't remember which one...

It was drummer David Kemper.

I've transcribed his remarks:
We'd go in a rehersal hall and we just would play for three days. And a lot of times before we did "Love and Theft," like I remember one period of three days where we'd play only Dean Martin songs. And we'd, you know, we'd play 'em on the record player, we'd listen to "Everybody Loves Somebody Sometime" and he'd sing it and we, then we're ready, we could do a whole, we could do a gig playing those songs. But we never, ever played them. We just polished them up and that was that. And he would do that with, um, Johnny and Jack songs and Stanley Brothers songs and, you know, real early, earlier American artists too. And he would turn us onto these things and he'd bring records in and give us tapes of these recordings with real early stuff. And then the next day at rehershal we'd run through them and learn to play them and most of them we never would play. And the first day we went in to record "Love and Theft" I know he said, "Alright, the first song we're gonna start with is this song." And he'd play it for us on his guitar. And then he would say, "You know, I want to do it in the style of this song." And he'd play an early song, and, like, we started with "Summer Days" and he'd play a song called "Rebecca" by Pete Johnson and Big Joe Turner. And then it became apparant to me that he'd been training us for, you know, a year, over a year, to learn these old styles, you know? We were far more prepared for what he had in store then had he not done, you know, gone through this procedure. We never talked about this and maybe it's just the way I'm, you know, what I took from that process, but it certainly was like going to college for me or, you know, going to the School of Bob, or the School of Americana really, you know, presented by Bob.

Fits in with what I have always thought. Excellent.


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PostPosted: Fri August 9th, 2013, 15:09 GMT 
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Interesting :)

Thank you :)


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PostPosted: Sun August 31st, 2014, 19:02 GMT 
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scottw wrote:
thisisjohn wrote:
...one of his old guitarist from around this time, can't remember which one...

It was drummer David Kemper.

I've transcribed his remarks:
We'd go in a rehersal hall and we just would play for three days. And a lot of times before we did "Love and Theft," like I remember one period of three days where we'd play only Dean Martin songs. And we'd, you know, we'd play 'em on the record player, we'd listen to "Everybody Loves Somebody Sometime" and he'd sing it and we, then we're ready, we could do a whole, we could do a gig playing those songs. But we never, ever played them. We just polished them up and that was that. And he would do that with, um, Johnny and Jack songs and Stanley Brothers songs and, you know, real early, earlier American artists too. And he would turn us onto these things and he'd bring records in and give us tapes of these recordings with real early stuff. And then the next day at rehershal we'd run through them and learn to play them and most of them we never would play. And the first day we went in to record "Love and Theft" I know he said, "Alright, the first song we're gonna start with is this song." And he'd play it for us on his guitar. And then he would say, "You know, I want to do it in the style of this song." And he'd play an early song, and, like, we started with "Summer Days" and he'd play a song called "Rebecca" by Pete Johnson and Big Joe Turner. And then it became apparant to me that he'd been training us for, you know, a year, over a year, to learn these old styles, you know? We were far more prepared for what he had in store then had he not done, you know, gone through this procedure. We never talked about this and maybe it's just the way I'm, you know, what I took from that process, but it certainly was like going to college for me or, you know, going to the School of Bob, or the School of Americana really, you know, presented by Bob.


Great story. Makes sense. Brilliant.

I always heard Sinatra singing these lines...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF6B9eb-w0Q

but never checked the original source for Sinatra.


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