Expecting Rain
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Chronicles Volume One revisited
http://www.expectingrain.com/discussions/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=74281
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Author:  oldmanemu [ Wed February 4th, 2015, 23:36 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Chronicles Volume One revisited

Johanna Parker wrote:
oldmanemu wrote:
That is actually bad editing.


Probably, but I suppose it more of a don't doubt Dylan attitude.

no , when I was in the book trade , I questioned some of the companies about editing and was told that it had been scaled down enormously over the past few years and about all they checked for now was anything with legal ramifications.

Author:  Philly joe Remarkable [ Thu February 5th, 2015, 11:41 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Chronicles Volume One revisited

The new checking process must still use the 'don't doubt Dylan' approach then. :)

Author:  Johanna Parker [ Thu February 5th, 2015, 12:22 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Chronicles Volume One revisited

Most definitely. Even if he recalls the right names, he clearly does not always check them for spelling... neither, apparently, did anyone else.

Author:  charlesdarwin [ Thu February 5th, 2015, 12:55 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Chronicles Volume One revisited

scottw wrote:
Johanna Parker wrote:
What I'm saying (and why I'm asking) is that readers must make it accessible to themselves, esp across cultural and generation gaps. I happen to be German and 40+ years younger than Bob... I'm just interested in finding out about the things in his work that arent immediately clear to me.


charlesdarwin wrote:

I suggest that it is not enough to know that "Lucy" is Lucille Ball. You need to know that it is cultural shorthand for her TV show I Love Lucy. The popularity of this show cannot be understated. The show ran in syndication for decades and was ubiquitous and unavoidable. It was always on television. For decades. The characters and the episodes are deeply ingrained in the psyche of certain generations of Americans. These generations can speak in Lucy shorthand.



I would respond that for your information I followed up my answer with some more information in a PM to the questioner - not that the nature of my response is any of your business. I would suggest in turn that given the initial hint Johanna Parker is sufficiently intelligent and adept at following up references to be able to find out about the significance of "Lucy" for herself.

Author:  Johanna Parker [ Thu February 5th, 2015, 13:22 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Chronicles Volume One revisited

Guys... let's just work on this together.

Author:  charlesdarwin [ Thu February 5th, 2015, 14:15 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Chronicles Volume One revisited

Yes, on reconsideration my somewhat sharp response to your well intentioned and informative post was wholly unnecessary. I'm sorry, scottw.

Author:  MMD [ Fri February 6th, 2015, 04:41 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Chronicles Volume One revisited

Thanks for the contribution, scottw.

And, yes, I always imagine it's got to be harder -- maybe just much more work or maybe impossible -- for non-Americans to fully engage this part of Dylan's work. Annotations and explanations like those Johanna suggests are a good bridge, at least.

This stuff surely requires a group effort.

Author:  Johanna Parker [ Sun February 8th, 2015, 21:22 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Chronicles Volume One revisited

"Sang nothing but these folk songs, and they gave me the code for everything that's fair game, that everything belongs to everyone."
Bob Dylan MusiCares speech

Author:  oldmanemu [ Mon February 9th, 2015, 04:37 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Chronicles Volume One revisited

MMD wrote:
Thanks for the contribution, scottw.

And, yes, I always imagine it's got to be harder -- maybe just much more work or maybe impossible -- for non-Americans to fully engage this part of Dylan's work. Annotations and explanations like those Johanna suggests are a good bridge, at least.

This stuff surely requires a group effort.

I can rember Australia and England and possibly Canada and South Africa and New Zealand relied heavily on American culture in the that period.

Author:  MMD [ Mon February 9th, 2015, 07:16 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Chronicles Volume One revisited

^ Yes, it's still a hegemonic culture, but influenced by and really understanding aren't quite the same. Doesn't mean no understanding -- that's daft. Just a different one.

Author:  oldmanemu [ Mon February 9th, 2015, 10:58 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Chronicles Volume One revisited

MMD wrote:
^ Yes, it's still a hegemonic culture, but influenced by and really understanding aren't quite the same. Doesn't mean no understanding -- that's daft. Just a different one.

I understood all those references JP asked about as we saw all those shows , used all those products/

Author:  Johanna Parker [ Mon February 9th, 2015, 11:06 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Chronicles Volume One revisited

^
1. You're a native speaker of the same language as Dylan. I'm not.
2. I suppose you are closer to him in age than I am.


It's not like we don't get a lot of US things over here, incl. TV series etc. but of course they get translated... retitled... character names may change, etc etc.

Author:  oldmanemu [ Tue February 10th, 2015, 04:53 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Chronicles Volume One revisited

Johanna Parker wrote:
^
1. You're a native speaker of the same language as Dylan. I'm not.
2. I suppose you are closer to him in age than I am.


It's not like we don't get a lot of US things over here, incl. TV series etc. but of course they get translated... retitled... character names may change, etc etc.

Johanna , I understood why you did not get or had trouble understanding the references , my comments were certainly not directed to you . I was pointing out to MND that it was not only Americans , but English speakers from the lands that I mentioned who would or should understand the references. Your English is far better that my German :D .

Author:  Johanna Parker [ Tue February 10th, 2015, 10:56 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Chronicles Volume One revisited

It may still (partly) be a generational thing even for English speakers?

Whatever. More questions coming your way soon.

Author:  oldmanemu [ Tue February 10th, 2015, 11:54 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Chronicles Volume One revisited

Johanna Parker wrote:
It may still (partly) be a generational thing even for English speakers?

Whatever. More questions coming your way soon.

Maybe , but in the early days of Australian television we got mostly American shows , and even though I am 10 years younger than Dylan I absorbed a lot of the culture he seems to have absorbed.

Author:  Johanna Parker [ Tue February 10th, 2015, 21:29 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Chronicles Volume One revisited

p.46, Hal Waters... very little information available online.

Author:  oldmanemu [ Wed February 11th, 2015, 05:36 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Chronicles Volume One revisited

Johanna Parker wrote:
p.46, Hal Waters... very little information available online.

He was a blues singer , did a version of ST James Infirmary , It is believed Dylan was a fan.

Author:  Johanna Parker [ Sat February 14th, 2015, 14:06 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Chronicles Volume One revisited

"on Boliva Time," p.50?
I guess it's a brand name, but I can't find anything about it.

Author:  scottw [ Sat February 14th, 2015, 14:10 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Chronicles Volume One revisited

Bulova is a brand of watch. "America runs on Bulova time" was their slogan for a long time.

Image

http://youtu.be/8JenAyMmZ68

Author:  supermabel1 [ Sat February 14th, 2015, 14:14 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Chronicles Volume One revisited

Johanna Parker wrote:
"on Boliva Time," p.50?
I guess it's a brand name, but I can't find anything about it.

I wonder if Bob is mis~spellin' (again :wink: ) and means Bulova watches?

EDIT: Scott was posting while I was typing! :D and his post answers the question completely!

Author:  Johanna Parker [ Sat February 14th, 2015, 15:34 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Chronicles Volume One revisited

Thank you both. He must have been thinking Bolivia or something. :?

Author:  scottw [ Sat February 14th, 2015, 16:37 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Chronicles Volume One revisited

Page 50 and 51 are based on passages from Raised on Radio by Gerald Nachman. Nachman responded with a partially tongue-in-cheek essay titled "Where Have All the Credits Gone: How Dylan Became a Star by Ripping Nachman Off"
http://web.archive.org/web/201108210216 ... an152.html

Image

Author:  Johanna Parker [ Fri March 20th, 2015, 16:25 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Chronicles Volume One revisited

Kristofferson bio plundering Chronicles (p.96)?
https://books.google.de/books?id=FILwohIvXCMC&pg=PT37&dq=%22like+a+great+tree+had+fallen%22+-dylan&hl=de&sa=X&ei=wUgMVZLuKcTgyQOt24D4DA&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%22like%20a%20great%20tree%20had%20fallen%22%20-dylan&f=false

Author:  scottw [ Fri March 20th, 2015, 16:35 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Chronicles Volume One revisited

Isn't that odd? I posted about this on Twitter last year.
https://twitter.com/scottwarmuth1/statu ... 7542393856

Dylan has peppered this passage with bits from Jack London.

Chronicles: Volume One, p. 96:
"It was like a great tree had fallen. Hearing about Hank's death caught me squarely on the shoulder. The silence of outer space never seemed so loud."

"The White Silence" by Jack London:
"The stillness was weird; not a breath rustled the frost-encrusted forest; the cold and silence of outer space had chilled the heart and smote the trembling lips of nature. A sigh pulsed through the air, - they did not seem to actually hear it, but rather felt it, like the premonition of movement in a motionless void. Then the great tree, burdened with its weight of years and snow, played its last part in the tragedy of life. He heard the warning crash and attempted to spring up, but almost erect, caught the blow squarely on the shoulder."

Chronicles: Volume One, p. 96:
"When I hear Hank sing, all movement ceases. The slightest whisper seems sacrilege."

"The White Silence" by Jack London:
"Nature has many tricks wherewith she convinces man of his finity--the ceaseless flow of the tides, the fury of the storm, the shock of the earthquake, the long roll of heaven's artillery--but the most tremendous, the most stupefying of all, is the passive phase of the White Silence. All movement ceases, the sky clears, the heavens are as brass; the slightest whisper seems sacrilege, and man becomes timid, affrighted at the sound of his own voice."

Author:  raging_glory [ Fri March 20th, 2015, 16:40 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Chronicles Volume One revisited

Even the bit about the hearing a robin weep...

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