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The Work of Scott Warmuth on Dylan's Sources
http://www.expectingrain.com/discussions/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=70441
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Author:  Silly Nelly [ Mon March 25th, 2013, 07:28 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: The Work of Scott Warmuth on Dylan's Sources

oldmanemu wrote:
I do not want or need any Bobcat points.

oldmanemu, I'm giving you ten Bobcat points anyway because I like you and because I'm a generous sort. Look after them, keep them somewhere safe in their original wrappers, for one day they'll be worth a small fortune.

Author:  oldmanemu [ Mon March 25th, 2013, 08:10 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: The Work of Scott Warmuth on Dylan's Sources

Silly Nelly wrote:
oldmanemu wrote:
I do not want or need any Bobcat points.

oldmanemu, I'm giving you ten Bobcat points anyway because I like you and because I'm a generous sort. Look after them, keep them somewhere safe in their original wrappers, for one day they'll be worth a small fortune.

Gee thanks , Nelly , that made my day . I shall treasure them always.

Author:  inthealley [ Mon March 25th, 2013, 12:31 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: The Work of Scott Warmuth on Dylan's Sources

Silly Nelly wrote:
Johanna Parker wrote:
I must admit I'm getting quite addicted to reading books that suddenly start singing off the page. It just happened last night, and I didn't even remember what the song was, but I knew the end of the line I was reading before I'd reached it.... and it was singing.


This happened to me just the other day. Reading Emmet Grogan's Ringolevio (1972) this little excerpt sang out at me:

"Now, Kenny Wisdom was sitting at the defense table with his attorney, awaiting his turn to stand before Judge Samuel Simon Liebowitz...There were two convicted defendants ahead of him; each one about to be sentenced. The first guy went before the bench...and the judge asked him if he had anything to say before sentence was passed. The nineteen year old said that he didn't. Then Liebowitz asked him to look at the clock...and, please, to tell him what time it was.
'It's five to ten, Your Honour,' replied the youth.
'Well, that's what you get,' the judge told him. 'Five to ten years at the state penitentiary of Ossining, New York.'"

Five to ten Bobcat points for the first correct answer submitted...! :wink:


I know that this appears in 'Joey', but it is also another Bob-borrowing example . There are a whole range of blues songs with 'witty' exchanges between judges and accused around five to ten and ninety-nine. (Michael Gray lists LOADS in blues borrowings of various kinds in 'Song & Dance Man'}.

If you should award me any points for this answer, I will put them in my bottom drawer with the Santander and the GreatWest LifeCo shares .......

Author:  Trev [ Tue April 2nd, 2013, 04:12 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: The Work of Scott Warmuth on Dylan's Sources

The five to ten bit is an old joke, in quite a cartoony song. When I was recently in court on charges of criminally incompetent loft insulating, the judge asked me what time it was, and I looked at the clock on the wall, and it happened to be five to ten ... but I simply told him it was not guilty o'clock and I left a free man, thanks to the judiciary's insistence on coordinating prison sentences with conversational expressions of time.

I think Scott W is scrupulous in identifying Dylan's sources, but in the recent installment there's no proof provided that Jolene is an elaborate construction and not just an assemblage of lines from DeVille that forms an unremarkable song.

Author:  oldmanemu [ Tue April 2nd, 2013, 08:51 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: The Work of Scott Warmuth on Dylan's Sources

Trev wrote:
The five to ten bit is an old joke, in quite a cartoony song. When I was recently in court on charges of criminally incompetent loft insulating, the judge asked me what time it was, and I looked at the clock on the wall, and it happened to be five to ten ... but I simply told him it was not guilty o'clock and I left a free man, thanks to the judiciary's insistence on coordinating prison sentences with conversational expressions of time.

I think Scott W is scrupulous in identifying Dylan's sources, but in the recent installment there's no proof provided that Jolene is an elaborate construction and not just an assemblage of lines from DeVille that forms an unremarkable song.

you are lucky I said 11.past 10 which it was and spent 11 years and 10 months in prison on fraud charges.

Author:  Trev [ Tue April 2nd, 2013, 16:12 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: The Work of Scott Warmuth on Dylan's Sources

Well at least you didn't give the time as 10:11, and spend one thousand and eleven years in prison. Your case, though, does effectively highlight the vagaries of sentencing decisions.

Author:  MMD [ Tue April 2nd, 2013, 20:27 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: The Work of Scott Warmuth on Dylan's Sources

http://swarmuth.blogspot.com/#!/2013/03 ... dylan.html

In case any one missed it, Scott Warmuth's latest. http://swarmuth.blogspot.com/#!/2013/03 ... dylan.html

Author:  oldmanemu [ Tue April 2nd, 2013, 21:32 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: The Work of Scott Warmuth on Dylan's Sources

MMD wrote:
http://swarmuth.blogspot.com/#!/2013/03/april-fools-day-2013-bob-dylan.html

In case any one missed it, Scott Warmuth's latest. http://swarmuth.blogspot.com/#!/2013/03 ... dylan.html

Interesting , but really more of the same.

Author:  MMD [ Wed April 3rd, 2013, 03:08 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: The Work of Scott Warmuth on Dylan's Sources

Yes, more of the same sleuthing and improbably perceptive reading.

Author:  oldmanemu [ Wed April 3rd, 2013, 04:15 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: The Work of Scott Warmuth on Dylan's Sources

MMD wrote:
Yes, more of the same sleuthing and improbably perceptive reading.

not what my post said :D

Author:  the_revelator [ Wed April 3rd, 2013, 19:48 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: The Work of Scott Warmuth on Dylan's Sources

MMD wrote:
http://swarmuth.blogspot.com/#!/2013/03/april-fools-day-2013-bob-dylan.html

In case any one missed it, Scott Warmuth's latest. http://swarmuth.blogspot.com/#!/2013/03 ... dylan.html



Thanks MMD.




Many thanks to Scott Warmuth for this terrific essay. A great insight that Dylan may be inventing critics to blather on about his work.

Also, the section on the tradition of African-American burlesque of Shakespeare's plays is very exciting! I completely buy into your belief that Dylan is using this source material with a fresh eye. Outstanding!

"If for my wife - your daughter - you are looking, you'll find her busy in the kitchen cooking." - George Griffin

I always wondered about the awkward construction of that line in "Po' Boy." Yes, it looks very much like BD is alluding to Griffin's work. This is fascinating stuff.

Author:  Mutabor [ Wed April 3rd, 2013, 20:40 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: The Work of Scott Warmuth on Dylan's Sources

the_revelator wrote:
Many thanks to Scott Warmuth for this terrific essay. A great insight that Dylan may be inventing critics to blather on about his work.



I currently have "The Essential Interviews" on my bedside table. And I recall having read in one of the 60ties interviews: "I'm going to write that book (Tarantula) and I will write the critics too!"

Author:  oldmanemu [ Wed April 3rd, 2013, 21:40 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: The Work of Scott Warmuth on Dylan's Sources

Mutabor wrote:
the_revelator wrote:
Many thanks to Scott Warmuth for this terrific essay. A great insight that Dylan may be inventing critics to blather on about his work.



I currently have "The Essential Interviews" on my bedside table. And I recall having read in one of the 60ties interviews: "I'm going to write that book (Tarantula) and I will write the critics too!"

It is an interesting approach and a device that has been used from time to time in the past. Fake reviews have been written to publicize unknown artists and performers or writers . However it is interesting that some one as much in the public eye as Dylan would want to use such a devise , unless f course it is all part of the greater game he may be playing . A game in which he has a huge advantage as he is the one who knows and makes the rules.
As an aside in my College days while I never invented reviewers. I used to pad out my references by inventing publications articles and books about whatever topic I was writing about and listing them as references to make it look like I had done more research.

Author:  the_revelator [ Wed April 3rd, 2013, 21:55 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: The Work of Scott Warmuth on Dylan's Sources

Mutabor wrote:
the_revelator wrote:
Many thanks to Scott Warmuth for this terrific essay. A great insight that Dylan may be inventing critics to blather on about his work.



I currently have "The Essential Interviews" on my bedside table. And I recall having read in one of the 60ties interviews: "I'm going to write that book (Tarantula) and I will write the critics too!"


:wink:

Another nice clue, Mutabor!

This (the fictional critic) may have been done most satisfactorily by Vladimir Nabokov who invented a deranged professor who elucidates a poem by an acquaintance in his best novel "Pale Fire." The professor, who is only able to filter the poem through his own limited personal experience, gets everything wrong. One of the greatest novels of all time and also one of the funniest.

Author:  MMD [ Wed April 3rd, 2013, 22:37 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: The Work of Scott Warmuth on Dylan's Sources

^ Yeah, has to be one of the best ever, right? It gave me anxiety attacks.

Author:  John B. Stetson [ Wed April 24th, 2013, 01:50 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: The Work of Scott Warmuth on Dylan's Sources

Just now reading chapter 8 of the Bob Spitz bio, about Bob's visits to Greystone Park State Hospital. "He'd just been to see him that first time and had a card Woody'd signed that said 'I ain't dead yet' on it." Certainly the source for the line in Early Roman Kings.

Author:  bobschool [ Thu April 25th, 2013, 12:02 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: The Work of Scott Warmuth on Dylan's Sources

hey JBStetson - that woody card i've always thought was way beyond the superficiality of Pop, i was thinking of printing millions up, just to see the pile of them. woody never gets credit for his innovations flying into the stratosphere above America, is that spelled with a k woody?

Author:  Fred@Dreamtime [ Fri April 26th, 2013, 15:57 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: The Work of Scott Warmuth on Dylan's Sources

For those who might miss the post, the source of "Duquesne Whistle" has been found.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=75347

I you look at the cooments for the video here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQcRQUjnx2c

...Jelly Roll Morton fans saw the connection about 7 months agao. The funny thing is, that I *knew* I had heard the melody of Duquesne Whistle before and lo and behold, I just found it in a search ofmy mp3 collection from when I was doing the Dreamtime podcast. All trees have roots. :-)

Author:  MMD [ Sun April 28th, 2013, 20:53 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: The Work of Scott Warmuth on Dylan's Sources

Thank you, Fred.

Author:  MMD [ Fri July 26th, 2013, 10:38 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: The Work of Scott Warmuth on Dylan's Sources

http://swarmuth.blogspot.com/2013/07/vi ... ce-of.html

Warmuth posted a new piece to his blog, Goon Talk.

The "Vive le vol" of the title translates as '(Long) Live the thief'. The full title is "Vive le vol: The importance of being Ernest Hemingway"

It's one of my favorite efforts by Warmuth so far. He has tracked down a really interesting use of Hemingway in Chronicles that unpacks the way Dylan "telescopes" (an important term in the essay) a passage (and its apparent themes of hope and despair) from Hemingway's "The Snows of Kilimanjaro" into a very strange anecdote in the Oh Mercy section -- the one about Dylan looking into a pot of seafood stew in his kitchen.

But the essay also explores the ideas of originality and the incorporation of other texts (hence the term 'thief/vol' in the title, quoted from Burroughs) in literature, and it does so in a provocative way, following the way Hemingway and his story, "The Snows of Kilimanjaro," functions in Chronicles and the work of William Burroughs.

It's a good read. It made me want to go and immediately read Hemingway and Burroughs again. And that's great, but Warmuth's work on Chronicles, however, does make me want an annotated version of Chronicles before I sit down with it again. And, finally, for those who have been following along, you can see Warmuth starting to really come to terms with the significance of the discoveries he and his fellow sleuths have made through their hard work.

Congrats to Warmuth. Already looking forward to the next one.

Author:  oldmanemu [ Fri July 26th, 2013, 23:07 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: The Work of Scott Warmuth on Dylan's Sources

MMD wrote:
http://swarmuth.blogspot.com/2013/07/vive-le-vol-bob-dylan-and-importance-of.html

Warmuth posted a new piece to his blog, Goon Talk.

The "Vive le vol" of the title translates as '(Long) Live the thief'. The full title is "Vive le vol: The importance of being Ernest Hemingway"

It's one of my favorite efforts by Warmuth so far. He has tracked down a really interesting use of Hemingway in Chronicles that unpacks the way Dylan "telescopes" (an important term in the essay) a passage (and its apparent themes of hope and despair) from Hemingway's "The Snows of Kilimanjaro" into a very strange anecdote in the Oh Mercy section -- the one about Dylan looking into a pot of seafood stew in his kitchen.

But the essay also explores the ideas of originality and the incorporation of other texts (hence the term 'thief/vol' in the title, quoted from Burroughs) in literature, and it does so in a provocative way, following the way Hemingway and his story, "The Snows of Kilimanjaro," functions in Chronicles and the work of William Burroughs.

It's a good read. It made me want to go and immediately read Hemingway and Burroughs again. And that's great, but Warmuth's work on Chronicles, however, does make me want an annotated version of Chronicles before I sit down with it again. And, finally, for those who have been following along, you can see Warmuth starting to really come to terms with the significance of the discoveries he and his fellow sleuths have made through their hard work.

Congrats to Warmuth. Already looking forward to the next one.

It is interesting , however in a way it again misses the point, it is not the fact that Dylan continues to do this that is important , but what is important is the creative use to which Dylan puts it. And the fact that by what he does he brings an awareness of these other writer's works to his fans.

Author:  raging_glory [ Fri July 26th, 2013, 23:27 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: The Work of Scott Warmuth on Dylan's Sources

MMD wrote:
http://swarmuth.blogspot.com/2013/07/vive-le-vol-bob-dylan-and-importance-of.html

Warmuth posted a new piece to his blog, Goon Talk.

The "Vive le vol" of the title translates as '(Long) Live the thief'. The full title is "Vive le vol: The importance of being Ernest Hemingway"

It's one of my favorite efforts by Warmuth so far. He has tracked down a really interesting use of Hemingway in Chronicles that unpacks the way Dylan "telescopes" (an important term in the essay) a passage (and its apparent themes of hope and despair) from Hemingway's "The Snows of Kilimanjaro" into a very strange anecdote in the Oh Mercy section -- the one about Dylan looking into a pot of seafood stew in his kitchen.

But the essay also explores the ideas of originality and the incorporation of other texts (hence the term 'thief/vol' in the title, quoted from Burroughs) in literature, and it does so in a provocative way, following the way Hemingway and his story, "The Snows of Kilimanjaro," functions in Chronicles and the work of William Burroughs.

It's a good read. It made me want to go and immediately read Hemingway and Burroughs again. And that's great, but Warmuth's work on Chronicles, however, does make me want an annotated version of Chronicles before I sit down with it again. And, finally, for those who have been following along, you can see Warmuth starting to really come to terms with the significance of the discoveries he and his fellow sleuths have made through their hard work.

Congrats to Warmuth. Already looking forward to the next one.


I don't have time to read Scott's new piece right this moment, but wanted to thank you now for posting it, or I might forget! I've got it bookmarked to read later this evening or tomorrow. I always enjoy them.

Author:  MMD [ Sat July 27th, 2013, 01:21 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: The Work of Scott Warmuth on Dylan's Sources

Well, I hope you like it raging.
Like so much good critical work, it'll make you want to go and read your Hemingway. And if Burroughs is in any way your bag, more so with Burroughs. I should have seen the connection between Hemingway and Burroughs perversely-macho tone. But I didn't.

Author:  raging_glory [ Sat July 27th, 2013, 01:53 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: The Work of Scott Warmuth on Dylan's Sources

I just did read it and I'm gonna have to read it again! I did enjoy it greatly.

Author:  Giada [ Sun August 4th, 2013, 18:52 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: The Work of Scott Warmuth on Dylan's Sources

The Scobie piece from which SW quotes is worth reading, too:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 5853,d.cGE

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