Expecting Rain
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Bob Dylan - The Asia Series
http://www.expectingrain.com/discussions/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=63507
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Author:  Milkcow [ Sun October 16th, 2011, 02:21 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series

the_revelator wrote:
My Echo, My Shadow And Me wrote:
On the left: a photo of Patrice Lumumba from the late 1950s/early 1960s. On the right Luc Tuymans' painting "Lumumba" (2000). Luc Tuymans is one of the best, most respected and most expensive living painters. He works from photographs. He does not credit his sources. SO WHAT. His paintings are great. Just like Dylan's paintings.




I saw a terrific show by Tuymans years ago and still have the catalog from it. It includes the Patrice Lumumba portrait, as well as many others. None of the portraits painted from photographs have photgraphers credits. Luc Tuymans, a Belgian artist born in 1958, could only have painted the portrait from a photgraph as Lumumba was assassinated in the Republic of Congo in 1961. Tuymans is a superb artist and I'm not aware of any controversy whatsoever regarding whether he uses photographs as references for some of his paintings.


It's true that crying "plagarism" when it comes to borrowing images in art is virtually pointless. Everything that can be painted already exists somewhere as a photograph. Having a photograph of something does not necessarily mean you can use it to make a good painting.



It's not that he copied the photos... it's they way it was MARKETED to make you think something different

Author:  AndoDoug [ Sun October 16th, 2011, 06:43 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series

moonlightransom wrote:
Saw the exhibit today! It was pretty great ... I would like to comment that Bob's paintings were indeed great and on good size canvases.
They didn't just approach greatness ("pretty great"), they were indeed great? AND on good sized canvases? I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but could you offer another artist/art piece that you feel matches the Asian Series in terms of Greatness? I lay awake in fear that I must be missing something.
nytimes wrote:
http://nyti.ms/qzUJXK
Artists copying without acknowledgment is, of course, an old story. The problem with “The Asia Series,” though, is that not even whispers of potential ethical impropriety can make these paintings interesting to look at, which — unless there’s some Duchampian gesture afoot here — is what Mr. Dylan presumably means them to be. The color is muddy, the brushwork scratchily dutiful, the images static and postcard-ish. The work is dead on the wall.

Author:  Blue Midnight [ Sun October 16th, 2011, 08:40 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series

AvengingAngel wrote:
An article on today's Expecting rain just reminded me of a glaring rip off of Bob Dylan's work by college professors and other so called learned people. They have the nerve to write books and give college courses on the meaning of Bob's writings and songs, body of work and LIFE!!! Did any of these people check with him about this? Did they ask his permission? Are they sharing the proceeds with him. I don't think so.
It is one thing for these people to analyse the work of someone who wrote literature a long time ago and is no longer around to consult. but to pretend to be an expert just because they saw a movie a dozen times,or read a poem or lyrics of a song over and over again. or go on line and become extremely long winded on the subject of the deeper meaning and portents of his so called melancholy writings, is to me a hell of a lot of nerve and the height of plagiaerisim.
The act of taking some old photographs and turning them into something much more interesting is something he is being vilified about when every day he gets ripped of. we all experience happiness and sadness in our lives. some of us do it under the glaring spotlight. Some of us do it in seclusion and quiet. Some of us are much more gifted at expressing that experience. Can we just appreciate that gift and treasure it and not try to analyse it so much?

Love you Bob
Angel

Image

Author:  ifitwastruetennessee [ Sun October 16th, 2011, 14:22 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series

Johanna Parker wrote:
Milkcow wrote:

I went too... the Life canvas is not on display and it is by private showing. It cost 200,000 and the one we all saw is not for sale anymore. The paintings are 350,000.

There was a flier showing where each piece was in the gallery. It didn't say anything about the paintings nor the price. You had to ask to speak to the representative for any info. the info given was the price, what was still available and which were the most popular. He never even mentioned the Life cover to me. So I wrote to him the other day and asked if the Vietnam cover was for sale and how I could see it. He sent me photos of 2 other different covers that were presently for sale.

Twilight did you ask to see the Life cover? They only do a private showing. Did you happen to see Uganda or Lyndon Johnson? I like the Vietnam one the best out of those 3.


OMG.... so there is a Life Magazine Series? Who did you write to to get this info??

Author:  Johanna Parker [ Sun October 16th, 2011, 14:31 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series

^^^
And except for the quote you meant to say what?

Author:  ifitwastruetennessee [ Sun October 16th, 2011, 14:38 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series

i meant to continue this conversation, since it seems to have been dropped, and I was interested

Author:  Johanna Parker [ Sun October 16th, 2011, 14:41 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series

More Life cover pictures as well as further paintings (dating from this year) do exist and are sold from Gagosian, but apparently they promote them in exclusive circles so that the actual images don't easily leak out.

Author:  ifitwastruetennessee [ Sun October 16th, 2011, 14:46 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series

well milkcow has 2 other pictures right

Author:  Johanna Parker [ Sun October 16th, 2011, 14:49 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series

yea, but she won't / can't show them anyone, and doesn't recall what email address she received them from.

Author:  ifitwastruetennessee [ Sun October 16th, 2011, 14:51 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series

part of that exclusive circle thing right

Author:  Johanna Parker [ Sun October 16th, 2011, 14:58 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series

Yes, and there are several Lyndon Johnson covers, so we can't even look up the original.

Author:  ifitwastruetennessee [ Sun October 16th, 2011, 15:08 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series

if milkcow ever remembers, maybe it will end up in a book somewhere

Author:  Johanna Parker [ Sun October 16th, 2011, 15:12 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series

I can't understand them being so secretive about it if they actually want to sell these things.

Author:  ifitwastruetennessee [ Sun October 16th, 2011, 15:47 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series

Milkcow wrote:
twilight wrote:
I went to the Gagosian, it's not presented like the other paintings, but the paintings aren't presented with information. I suspect if you offered 350,000 for it, it would suddenly become a Dylan work.


I went too... the Life canvas is not on display and it is by private showing. It cost 200,000 and the one we all saw is not for sale anymore. The paintings are 350,000.

There was a flier showing where each piece was in the gallery. It didn't say anything about the paintings nor the price. You had to ask to speak to the representative for any info. the info given was the price, what was still available and which were the most popular. He never even mentioned the Life cover to me. So I wrote to him the other day and asked if the Vietnam cover was for sale and how I could see it. He sent me photos of 2 other different covers that were presently for sale.

Twilight did you ask to see the Life cover? They only do a private showing. Did you happen to see Uganda or Lyndon Johnson? I like the Vietnam one the best out of those 3.




what did twilight say about it

Author:  Milkcow [ Sun October 16th, 2011, 15:53 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series

Johanna Parker wrote:
More Life cover pictures as well as further paintings (dating from this year) do exist and are sold from Gagosian, but apparently they promote them in exclusive circles so that the actual images don't easily leak out.


On display there are 18 paintings, but in the catalog there are more.

Author:  ifitwastruetennessee [ Sun October 16th, 2011, 16:08 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series

milkcow do you remember who you wrote to get the pictures from, maybe check your email- to jog your memory

Author:  Johanna Parker [ Sun October 16th, 2011, 16:44 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series

Milkcow wrote:
Johanna Parker wrote:
More Life cover pictures as well as further paintings (dating from this year) do exist and are sold from Gagosian, but apparently they promote them in exclusive circles so that the actual images don't easily leak out.


On display there are 18 paintings, but in the catalog there are more.


All with an Asian theme?

Author:  Milkcow [ Mon October 17th, 2011, 00:12 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series

yes... there are more from that series that are not hanging there... I have no idea which ones because I didn't care to go back and figure it out... too much work....lol no, I'm too lazy and I didn't care enough to do it.

Author:  Milkcow [ Mon October 17th, 2011, 00:22 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Asia Seies - Vietnam image

ifitwastruetennessee wrote:
Milkcow wrote:
is anything he does original? really? uuugg... after a while I just roll my eyes.




rather distasteful, huh... well it's all rather distasteful isn't it... it hasn't stopped you... after a while I just roll my eyes


and now you ask me for information.... hehe you should have been nice in the beginning when it counted, Mr Cranky Pants!

:evil: :lol:

Seriously,

I don't have the email anymore. I already read it so I tossed it. It didn't say anything that I didn't post here though.

Author:  ifitwastruetennessee [ Mon October 17th, 2011, 02:00 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series

milkcow, what are the two pictures, idi amin and johnson?, and is there extra text with those. i would wait around for someone else to ask you this, but it seems like that might mean waiting a long time, if you don't want to talk about it though... such is life. if you don't want to say, it's fine with me, i am not writing a book, or anything- just find the life thing pretty interesting

Author:  Milkcow [ Mon October 17th, 2011, 02:53 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series

ifitwastruetennessee wrote:
milkcow, what are the two pictures, idi amin and johnson?, and is there extra text with those. i would wait around for someone else to ask you this, but it seems like that might mean waiting a long time, if you don't want to talk about it though... such is life. if you don't want to say, it's fine with me, i am not writing a book, or anything- just find the life thing pretty interesting



yes there is text... the johnson one is funny... well I thought it was
the uganda one is sort of different.... I don't want to write the text on here since none of these were publicized and it's not my place to do that.

and you didn't laugh that I quoted you and called you Mr Cranky Pants.... not happy :lol:

Author:  ifitwastruetennessee [ Mon October 17th, 2011, 03:22 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series

no i did laugh, and i have been pretty crabby all weekend so if the pants fit... thanks for explaining this, and i can see why you do not want to write the text since it has not been published or released to the general public- that makes sense to me. Is it a Uganda cover or an Idi amin cover though? it is strange how it seems to be only for some "exclusive" (money?) types to see- the whole thing seems creepy. Or maybe it is more of an on request type of thing, like you did?

Author:  Johanna Parker [ Mon October 17th, 2011, 06:55 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series

Well, I know for a fact that there are some paintings that Gagosian are selling that do not have the Asian theme, so those are obviously not in the catalogue. They are both paintings of musicians.

Author:  Johanna Parker [ Mon October 17th, 2011, 08:35 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series

Milkcow wrote:
On display there are 18 paintings, but in the catalog there are more.


This is not actually correct. There are 18 paintings in the catalogue, and then there are close-up views of various parts of each painting - but there is nothing new / unseen / unreleased in the catalogue.

I just received my catalogue today - YAY - thanks BABF!! :D

Author:  ifitwastruetennessee [ Mon October 17th, 2011, 14:14 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series

Johanna Parker wrote:
Well, I know for a fact that there are some paintings that Gagosian are selling that do not have the Asian theme, so those are obviously not in the catalogue. They are both paintings of musicians.


So i guess they only have the paintings with the Asia theme up in the gallery and in the catalogue. i guess the more exclusive, the more the rich people, want a piece of it, so they keep that separate- someone explained how these galleries work previously. But if the Vietnam painting is some kind of puzzle, why doesn't he show all the pieces, or only show them to some. maybe these paintings might be directed at the people who can afford this kind of art- but didn't someone on here say the life or Vietnam painting was not for sale, anymore. But the others are, and they sent the photos of them to milkcow because they want to sell those? i wonder if they would send you photos of the paintings if you asked for them- aren't you writing about this for something? I wonder why they sent Milkcow just two pictures- are there just three in that series? And about the paintings of musicians-are you talking about the piano player painting and ?- thanks

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