Expecting Rain
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Allen Ginsberg & Bob Dylan
http://www.expectingrain.com/discussions/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=33053
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Author:  iamhere [ Wed January 5th, 2011, 16:35 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Allen Ginsberg & Bob Dylan

I dig the beats. Kerouac mostly. It's hard not to like Howl. but I feel that Ginsberg like the beatles wrote only on the influence of drugs and was only inspired by drugs making the words sound interesting yet pointless. (I know a lot of people are going to hate that comment) I do love listening to him read his stuff as i do kerouac.

One of my english professors met him and he said he is a real jerk. I guess at a book sign he made a girl cry and run away. Ginsbeerg said he didn't give a x about her and why should he give a x.

Author:  Warren Peace [ Wed January 5th, 2011, 17:48 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Allen Ginsberg & Bob Dylan

Other than Howl, I mostly cared about Ginsberg as a commentator about Dylan, honestly. He'd always have some unique take nobody had thought of.

Author:  toilandblood [ Thu December 13th, 2012, 08:50 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Allen Ginsberg & Bob Dylan

has anyone ever read this: http://ginsbergblog.blogspot.com/2012/06/allen-ginsberg-criticizes-bob-dylan-mmp.html?
it's interesting.

Author:  Troubadour64 [ Thu December 13th, 2012, 08:57 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Allen Ginsberg & Bob Dylan

"how can anyone write after Rimbaud?"

i like that...

Author:  Pedro Brave [ Fri December 14th, 2012, 00:10 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Allen Ginsberg & Bob Dylan

therevelator wrote:
As far as Ginsberg and John Lennon, according to Philip Norman, Lennon basically found him repulsive on first meeting him with Dylan. Later, Ginsberg invited John and George and their wives to visit him in his London hotel room. They went, to be polite, and Ginsberg opened the door naked except for a pair of underpants on his head and a "do not disturb" sign hung on his penis. John and George were horrified that Ginsberg had behaved this way in front of their wives (they agreed that it was not okay to pull that crap in front of women) and the four of them fled. My impression is that they had a powerful dislike for him and tolerated him only as part of Dylan's entourage.




.


I've heard this story too and it has always made me wonder if Lennon is at least some part of the character of Mister Jones...

I did a fair bit of work on Ginsberg at Uni; if I ever get the time to find it (and the confidence to share) I might put up one of the pieces here.

Author:  Giada [ Fri December 14th, 2012, 00:20 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Allen Ginsberg & Bob Dylan

Stephen Scobie has a nice section on the pair in his book Alias Bob Dylan Revisited; some of it:
"...Both Allen Ginsberg and Bob Dylan had to cope, from very early in their careers, with the demands of fame, with being seen as the poetic spokesmen of their generations. In his biography of Ginsberg, Dharma Lion, Michael Schumacher suggests that the two of them were fascinated by each other's very different responses to these demands.

Ginsberg was almost compulsively open, laying himself bare (sometimes quite literally), making himself vulnerable to all sorts of attacks, allowing himself to appear foolish or naive, but always, with heroic honesty, bearing witness to his beliefs and convictions. Dylan has tended to protect himself more, taking refuge in secrecy, isolation, and disguise: preserving within himself a private place which none of his fans has been allowed to enter. Like Schumacher, I believe that their friendship was to a large measure based on their respect for each other's positions. I'm sure that Ginsberg often wished he was Dylan; I'm not so sure that the converse is true.

What they ultimately did share was a conception of the poet as prophet. Both of them saw the poet's role as far more than the expression of purely personal feelings, but rather as a public statement of a morally responsible position. Ginsberg's three greatest poems are all elegies (and an elegy is, by definition, the public statement of a private grief): Howl was an elegy for his friends, the pioneers of the Beat generation; Kaddish (which the very private Dylan saw as his greatest poem) was an elegy for his mother, and for his own childhood; The Fall of America was an elegy for his nation. Put them all together, and what you have is what Bob Dylan has been singing about all his career, from "Hard Rain" to "Highlands": a world gone wrong. Within such a world, the only voice that is possible is the voice of the prophet: Jeremiah or Blind Willie McTell; Allen Ginsberg or Bob Dylan."

Author:  raging_glory [ Fri December 14th, 2012, 00:39 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Allen Ginsberg & Bob Dylan

^I love everything you post from that book. It's in my cart on Amazon. I'll order it after Christmas.

Author:  Trev [ Tue March 19th, 2013, 16:19 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Allen Ginsberg & Bob Dylan

I find the relationship between Dylan and Ginsberg touching and inspiring.

Dylan said that Al Aranowitz introduced him to Ginsberg and his boyfriend Peter Orlovsky above a bookstore on 8th Street in the fall of '64 or '65

In the mid sixties Dylan liked to claim he was rewriting a movie that Ginsberg was writing. It was a horror cowboy movie in which Dylan would play his own mother. Later on he would say that he did write a little of it.

Dylan listed Ginsberg amongst his favourite poets, along with WC Fields, Charlie Rich, Smokey Robinson and the trapeze family from the circus. (In actual fact a pretty good summation of Dylan's aesthetic.)



telltale wrote:
In the thread on Visions of Johanna, the influence of Ginsberg's great recasting of the Mourner's Kaddish upon that song has been highlighted by rimbaud. Certainly the influence of Kaddish on Sad Eyed Lady is aglow & apparent :

with your eyes of Russia/with your eyes of no money ... with your eyes of your failure at the piano/with your eyes of your relatives in California/with your eyes of Ma Rainey dying in an ambulance/with your eyes of Czechoslovakia attacked by robots

into

with your mercury mouth in the missionary times/and your eyes like smoke and your prayers like rhymes ... with your childhood flames on your midnight rug/and your Spanish manners and your mother's drugs ... with your saintlike face/and your ghostlike soul

where rhythmic biographical cataloguing is used to commemorate a life -
but in Sad Eyed Lady's case it commemorates a life that's still being lived.

In fact, Sad Eyed Lady, for all its lyrical memoralising, for all its elegiac feel, is an anti-Kaddish.
I think Dylan may have been inspired by Ginsberg's poem about mortality into a direct and appropriately imaginative response : a prayer to immortality - Oh, who among them do they think could bury you? Who among them do they think could carry you? Oh, who among them do you think could destroy you?

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