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PostPosted: Thu September 25th, 2014, 23:00 GMT 

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Blind Boy Zimmerman wrote:
If the pay is good depends on who you are. Charlie and Tony probably earn more than 3 grand. I've heard figures like 10.000 a week for esteemed sessionplayers like Jim Keltner, Steve Gadd etc. Anyway for a guy like Duke who is not in demand as a touring guitar player for A level talent like Dylan, Clapton and similar. That pay might not be way off. Compared to what some of these blues combos get per gig 3000+ expenses paid would be considered a great pay.

Thanks, BBZ. Makes good sense. Duke ordinarily isn't thought of as a guy who does these kinds of tours, so naturally he starts off toward the bottom of the pay scale.


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PostPosted: Fri September 26th, 2014, 01:43 GMT 

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Also it's probably reasonable to assume that most of Bob's team are salaried to assure availability. Duke might have been on something different as a new member, but I'd think for any of Bob's seasoned crew (band, sound, lights, techs etc.) they're getting a steady salary regardless of days/weeks on the road. And we see that most of the band are filling the rest of the time with fruitful projects.


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PostPosted: Fri September 26th, 2014, 02:08 GMT 
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Mr. Tambourine Man wrote:
I take full responsibility for the comeback of this thread. Carry on.

I just saw this again and cracked up, Tambo...


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PostPosted: Fri September 26th, 2014, 02:45 GMT 

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Mr. Tambourine Man wrote:
I take full responsibility for the comeback of this thread. Carry on.

Did you hold a gun to anybody's head & make 'em read it? No? Then everything should be cool.


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PostPosted: Fri September 26th, 2014, 05:45 GMT 
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P. Pittsburgh Joe wrote:
Blind Boy Zimmerman wrote:
If the pay is good depends on who you are. Charlie and Tony probably earn more than 3 grand. I've heard figures like 10.000 a week for esteemed sessionplayers like Jim Keltner, Steve Gadd etc. Anyway for a guy like Duke who is not in demand as a touring guitar player for A level talent like Dylan, Clapton and similar. That pay might not be way off. Compared to what some of these blues combos get per gig 3000+ expenses paid would be considered a great pay.

Thanks, BBZ. Makes good sense. Duke ordinarily isn't thought of as a guy who does these kinds of tours, so naturally he starts off toward the bottom of the pay scale.



It's hard to search but I did find this: http://www.ehow.com/info_10047123_salar ... tml#page=0 which says the very top working musicians make "more than" $60/hour, which if they get a salary equal to 40 hours per week is about $125k. I saw something else about stadium acts paying musicians $1500-$2500 per show and Dylan played 86 shows in 2012---which would bring $129,00 to $215,000 to band members. If he has them on a $3000/wk salary, that's $156,000. Anyway you want to slice it, that isn't too bad compared to industry norms as far as I can find them. And bear in mind Dylan is not a stadium act these days, far from it yet many expenses remain the same. I'm pretty sure I've read that he pays his musicians well, but I had no idea what that meant...plus I'm bored and can't sleep.


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PostPosted: Fri September 26th, 2014, 08:07 GMT 
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Being a pro muscian myself I have a bit of insight especially on blues players. Some of these guys like Duke and Denny play with ther own combos sometimes for around 100-300 dollars per night. Where the money is for those guys are touring in eEurope. Sometimes they can make 10 times the money per night there. That said more in demand people like the ones Clapton use and other A level acts are often way more expensive. Its quite simple the more demand the more you can charge as a sideman/freelancer.


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PostPosted: Fri September 26th, 2014, 23:40 GMT 
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Blind Boy Zimmerman wrote:
Its quite simple the more demand the more you can charge as a sideman/freelancer.

And the more demanding someone is, the less they might play.


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PostPosted: Sat September 27th, 2014, 00:07 GMT 

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This is interesting to me. I realize Dylan's band can work on side projects whenever they're not on tour. But I wonder if their contracts say that if Bob wants them in the studio to cut an album, for instance, then they gotta drop what they're doing & be there?


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PostPosted: Sat September 27th, 2014, 00:09 GMT 
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Well, if there's a chance to record with Bob, I'm thinking that not too many would say no...maybe Duke!


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PostPosted: Sat September 27th, 2014, 00:12 GMT 

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I get that, but maybe I didn't ask it right. Say Stu is booked in a small club & the dates are scheduled? Does he have to cancel 'em?

I'm asking rhetorically. I don't expect anybody to know the answer.

BTW - Roy Buchanan turned down Bob Dylan.


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PostPosted: Sat September 27th, 2014, 01:39 GMT 
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Stu would be foolish to do a gig instead.

Didn't know about Roy's refusal. Not to smart if true.


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PostPosted: Sat September 27th, 2014, 01:46 GMT 

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Oh, believe me, it's true. Roy also turned down the Rolling Stones, John Lennon, & Paul McCartney. There's a bio on Roy written by Phil Carson, if you're interested, that's absolutely the best rock-n-roll bio I've ever read. Roy always battled demons & had an odd fear of both success & failure. That accounted for Roy turning his back on the big time so often. Lennon actually showed up in the studio one night & said, hey, I'll play rhythm guitar on Roy's album for free, just coz I'm a fan & I wanna help him sell some records, but Roy never so much as came out to meet him. In the case of Dylan & McCartney, Roy never returned their calls.

I saw a few Roy shows back in the day. One tour he billed himself as The Man Who Turned Down Bob Dylan & the Rolling Stones. Another tour he billed himself as The Man Who Turned Down John Lennon & the Rolling Stones.


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PostPosted: Sat September 27th, 2014, 01:52 GMT 
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P. Pittsburgh Joe wrote:
Sphere wrote:
You're taking things way out of context. It's great that you're proud of your job and all but that has nothing to do with anything I said. I meant lazy arguments. Don't just take a word I used and apply it to something completely irrelevant in the discussion. What is that?

It's called overreacting. :lol: I'm only human. Sorry.
Sphere wrote:
The bottom line is you got sore over what happened with Duke and instead of just defending him you started criticizing Bob. That's fine but to me it didn't ever really seem like you knew what you were talking about or even believed it yourself. You were just pissed and had to show everybody that Bob was the bad guy and can't play good shows anymore. I thought it was annoying so I spoke up. That's it.

Well, I think we're getting somewhere, Sphere. I can at least respect the tone & rationale behind that post, even if I disagree with it. Sure, I didn't like seeing Duke leave the tour under those circumstances---which fan or his would?---& yes, I blame Bob, but I believe everything I say & feel like I knew what I was talking about at least as much as others here who "knew" that Duke was fired for some heinous misconduct. And honest, I've been down on Dylan as a live performer since about 2011 & had sworn off his shows. I said this on Dec. 23, 2012 when we learned Duke was joining the band:
P. Pittsburgh Joe wrote:
I was likely gonna stop attending any further NET shows. Now I have to rethink it if the NET comes here in '13.

...and I said this on May 5, 2013, when we had no reason to believe that Duke wouldn't continue on with the NET for the rest of the year:
P. Pittsburgh Joe wrote:
in Raleigh some of Bob's singing & phrasing was starting to get just a little ugly like 2011-12 IMHO.

It's just how I've felt. It's all here on the message boards. No relation to Duke leaving the NET.

Sphere, sincere thanks for that post.

No hard feelings, man. I was just venting. Maybe even unfairly. Enjoy the games...


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PostPosted: Sat September 27th, 2014, 02:04 GMT 

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Sphere wrote:
No hard feelings, man. I was just venting. Maybe even unfairly. Enjoy the games...

None here either, buddy. We're both Pittsburgh guys. We don't back down & we speak in a direct manner. But in the end, it's all good. Go, Bucs!


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PostPosted: Sat September 27th, 2014, 03:26 GMT 
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P. Pittsburgh Joe, i should check that Carson book out, thanks, i live near his last neighborhood, not to be morbid, but do you think it was suicide? i trust he has found peace, hard to find that kind of talent these days, everyone just works hard enough to be employable rather than driven by their inner genius.

you heard joshua bell though is coming back to do a show again inside the train station in DC for a promo of his new record, he seems driven though... glad you saw Roy


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PostPosted: Sat September 27th, 2014, 04:38 GMT 

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bobschool wrote:
P. Pittsburgh Joe, i should check that Carson book out, thanks, i live near his last neighborhood, not to be morbid, but do you think it was suicide?

I don't, altho' there's enough in the book to persuade one either way. As you probably know, Roy was the guitarist in the Hawks before Robbie Robertson, so he was close with those guys. When Richard Manuel hung himself, Roy was unusually curious about learning exactly how he did it. Then again, his head was bruised & dented when he was found dead, like he had been clubbed. A few months previous he had been roughed up by cops & vowed that they'd never take him alive again. So it's easy to imagine that he resisted the cops rather violently & was unintentionally killed by them. I'm more persuaded by the latter but you might draw a different conclusion. He might have been depressed before but it seemed he'd gotten over it. He was certainly excited about his career at that time. His final concert is one of the very best bootlegs I own.

Then, if it can be believed, there's this that was posted to the Sweet Dreams of Roy Buchanan web site:
Jerry Hentman wrote:
My name is Jerry Hentman, I was in the cell directly across from Roy's on that fateful night. I can say with confidence that I was the last person to speak to him. I was locked up in the DT block at Fairfax jail for a B.S. charge (argument w/ girlfriend). I fell asleep only to be awakened several times by Roy throwing some toilet paper at me and cussing at me. I got fed up with it so I told him to shut the "F" up. We went back and forth several times and it just ceased. I was awakened early the next morning to some commotion, I looked from out of my cell and saw the Deputy Sheriffs open Roy's door and cut his shirt from around his neck from the door. I was the only person contacted by I.A.D. several times after this and what I saw was that Roy had taken his own life. They tried in vane for about 15 minutes to revive him but it was too late. Look, I know that it is easy to put the blame on someone else but sometimes the truth is hard to handle. I did not know who Roy Buchanan was, in 1988 I was 24 years old and was into heavy metal rock and roll. Jerry

http://www.yee.ch/winter/rbuch.html
But this guy didn't actually see anything & who knows what happened while he was asleep?

bobschool wrote:
glad you saw Roy

His manager lived in Pittsburgh & over the years many of his band members were from Pittsburgh, so this town was probably part of every tour he ever made, & I saw some good shows. The last one was in December 1987 in a small club. The cigarette smoke was heavy & my pregnant wife was starting to feel sick, so we left about halfway thru. My wife felt bad about making me miss the rest of the show, but I said, don't worry, his career is getting back on track & there will be plenty more opportunities. He was dead the following August.

I thought he was the greatest guitarist who ever lived. If somebody asked me what an electric guitar should sound like, I'd point him to Second Album.


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PostPosted: Sat September 27th, 2014, 08:49 GMT 
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oh, pittsburgh! -thanks so much for that quote from Jerry Hentman. i just happened to read a headline just this past hour that 'suicide is murder directed inward', maybe the hassles of being a genius in a world of mediocre ambitions kills some of the super sensitive unawares. music being one's art can be so hard, i mean Picasso didn't need to play smoky clubs, he could create in peace.

the fascinating thing to me is see how bob has danced on that tightrope, maybe you say he fell off a long time ago, but now he's daring to be elegant, you must catch him this fall, test your convictions. that's what i learned from bob, in all his confounding complications, he tests my assignations. that's his art, he's the tummler, right. Roy is eternal though, it is a purity thing isn't it. thanks for representing him in that, nice to see.


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PostPosted: Sat September 27th, 2014, 11:04 GMT 
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Still Go Barefoot wrote:
Stu would be foolish to do a gig instead.

Didn't know about Roy's refusal. Not to smart if true.



Roy would have been a hoorible choice for Dylan IMHO. Jimmie Vaughan turned an offer down also.

Regarding cancelling club gigs I suppose they would have to. But usually Bobs tours would be planned for a year in advance at least. Therefore that would seldom be a problem. One thing to note though is that Sexton didn't appear at the Grammies last time, so he was clearly booked for something else which he could not cancel (probably some studio work).


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PostPosted: Sat September 27th, 2014, 12:06 GMT 

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I remember something about GE Smith being paid $10/wk? This was back in the late '80s, mind you.

Of course, it's not all about money. Unless you're really smitten by the idea of playing with Bob, I can't imagine that he presents a terribly attractive scenario. Imagine if it was just some other 70-something performer whose voice was shot, played their instrument very poorly and loudly while the rest of the band remains highly restricted (and not terribly dynamic)? I got the feeling that Larry jumped when he did because Bob's show had gotten so bad/boring.


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PostPosted: Sat September 27th, 2014, 14:30 GMT 

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Blind Boy Zimmerman wrote:
Roy would have been a hoorible choice for Dylan IMHO.

You're judging Roy by his solo work, but I think he would have worked well with Dylan. Roy was happiest when he was backing a singer. Singers liked him coz he would shine during his solos but didn't infringe on the singer when he was singing. Roy backed up people as diverse as Danny Denver, Jerry Lee Lewis, & Merle Haggard. He backed up so many people & played (uncredited) on so many 45's in the late '50's & '60's that not even his biographer could learn them all. He woulda found a way to fit in with what Bob was playing in the '70's & '80's. That's what he did with everybody else he backed.

Roy's first album has a cover version of Merle Haggard's "I am a Lonesome Fugitive." I used to wonder why somebody as creative as Roy copied the guitar solo, almost note for note, from Haggard's recording. Then one day I found an old grainy video of Haggard performing that tune live on an old TV show. The band is a bunch of clean cut good ol' boys, but the young guitarist has long brown hair & a beard. The camera moves to him during the solo. It was Roy! It's probably his solo in the first place!


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PostPosted: Sat September 27th, 2014, 14:33 GMT 

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bobschool wrote:
the fascinating thing to me is see how bob has danced on that tightrope, maybe you say he fell off a long time ago, but now he's daring to be elegant, you must catch him this fall, test your convictions.

Thanks, but it's sorta moot anyway. He's not coming here, & I already have tickets to 3 concerts next month so my entertainment budget is pretty much shot for a while. For years I used to skip some other good shows so I could see Bob, but now I wanna go in another direction.


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PostPosted: Sat September 27th, 2014, 14:54 GMT 
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P. Pittsburgh Joe wrote:
You're judging Roy by his solo work...


Yes you are correct. :)


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PostPosted: Sun September 28th, 2014, 01:10 GMT 
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I wonder what Roy would've thought about Duke being finished in Bobs band...

Also, I believe that Buddy Miller turned down the "fill in for Duke, while we kow-tow to Charlie" spot.
In fact, Buddy recommended Colin Linden. That was all during the last North American go 'round.


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PostPosted: Sun September 28th, 2014, 12:59 GMT 
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Duke just posted on facebook this morning that he's happy that P.Joe and Sphere have mended their ways

i copied it to my page as i feel the same...


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PostPosted: Sun September 28th, 2014, 13:57 GMT 
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A Merry Llama wrote:
Duke just posted on facebook this morning that he's happy that P.Joe and Sphere have mended their ways

i copied it to my page as i feel the same...

Now that is funny!! :lol:
I already figured we had Bob and Charlie checking in. Didn't think of Duke

Someone mentioned Joshua Bell. Love him. Saw him live. Excellent.
There was an article I read about him in the train station playing once. Without saying who he was.
Seems children noticed and would want to stay and listen. But adults would want to hurry on their way.
So does that mean we are getting dumber as we grow up?
:?: :?


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