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PostPosted: Sat September 20th, 2014, 15:28 GMT 
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P. Pittsburgh Joe wrote:
smoke wrote:
Huh? Dylan's been getting mostly positive reviews since fall 2013, both in the wider press and in the BobBubble.

I don't argue that point. I said there have been some bad reviews since around 2008. And those bad reviews focus on Bob struggling to sing.

As for the reviews coming in since fall '13, that's fine, they're entitled to their opinions. I just don't hear it, myself.

It's pretty tough to put stock in ANY review though. Not really sure how reviews can be viewed as a realistic measurement.


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PostPosted: Sat September 20th, 2014, 15:35 GMT 

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I was at the first Duke show in Amherst, NY. There was a major incident during Thunder on the Mountain where Duke played a long solo that went absolutely nowhere. I mean, it wasn't remotely as bad as the "solos" Bob plays, but for a guitarist of Bob's it was really flat. Bob began to sort of openly mock and show frustration Duke. It went on forever and it was the rudest, most ignorant thing I've ever seen anyone do on a concert stage. Why couldn't Bob just cut the solo off, like he has about a million times before? He let it drag on in the most sadistic way...I felt awful for Duke. He's a good player and he was perfect for Bob's new, quieter sound.


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PostPosted: Sat September 20th, 2014, 15:38 GMT 
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I do think Duke's more traditional soloing style would have served well on the Americanarama tour, though.


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PostPosted: Sat September 20th, 2014, 16:06 GMT 

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Still Go Barefoot wrote:
It's pretty tough to put stock in ANY review though. Not really sure how reviews can be viewed as a realistic measurement.

No, they can't. Many times I attend a show & wonder if the reviewer saw the same show I did. NTM, as Smoke pointed out, there have been positive reviews since fall '13 that I just can't see.

The point is, if Bob wants to dress down anybody on stage, he should look at himself first. He's not perfect & he's not at his best right now. The responsibility for a good Bob Dylan show is on Bob Dylan!


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PostPosted: Sat September 20th, 2014, 16:11 GMT 
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That's true, but any superstar's band has to help carry him when he'd not at his best and at the same time not overshadow the leader - all the while creating the mood and comfort zone where he CAN do his best. Not an easy job, but I understand the pay is pretty good.


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PostPosted: Sat September 20th, 2014, 18:14 GMT 
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Still Go Barefoot wrote:
I see where you're coming from, Fog.
It seems like the roll began with the entrance of Duke in the Spring of 2013, that's all.


I completely agree. That tour planted the seeds of what we're enjoying today.


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PostPosted: Sat September 20th, 2014, 23:19 GMT 
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P. Pittsburgh Joe wrote:
I liked what Duke brought to the party & was anxious to see the one show that I saw with Duke, at Cal U. I have long been a big fan of Duke, finding him to be a versatile player who's conquered all musical styles. Folks here that call him "boring" or "one dimensional" haven't followed his career. Can you think of any other guitarists could play in such diverse groups as Roomful of Blues, the Fabulous Thunderbirds, Tom Waits, the Pleasure Kings, Sunny & Her Joy Boys, & Muddy Waters' band? Me neither. Many long-time observers of the Fabulous Thunderbirds believe that the best years for that band were when Kid Bangham & Duke were trading guitar licks. I've seen Duke perform live in local clubs here many times.

Duke Robillard has conquered all musical styles? Good one.

And why all the Dylan bashing on your part? You're a broken record. You've made the same points on the subject ad nauseam.


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PostPosted: Sat September 20th, 2014, 23:48 GMT 
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Beets14beets wrote:
I was at the first Duke show in Amherst, NY.

That was the second Duke show. Glad you made it I didn't get there till the 3rd one.


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PostPosted: Sun September 21st, 2014, 02:13 GMT 

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Sphere wrote:
Duke Robillard has conquered all musical styles? Good one.

Well. You once attempted to discredit my opinion of Dylan by asking me how many shows I've seen, as if it made your opinion more valid than mine just coz you've seen more shows than me. So now I'm asking you. How many of Duke's shows have you been to? How many of Duke's albums do you have? How many albums do you have by Roomful of Blues? The Pleasure Kings? The Fabulous Thunderbirds? Sunny & Her Joy Boys? Had you ever even heard of any of these bands before you read my post? What's fair for one is fair for the other.
Sphere wrote:
And why all the Dylan bashing on your part? You're a broken record. You've made the same points on the subject ad nauseam.

This is called Expecting Rain Discussions. That makes it a discussion forum, not a Praise Everything Dylan Does forum or an Agree With Everything Sphere Says forum. In having discussions, I give my opinion. My opinion is that Dylan is arguably the greatest song writer who ever lived & perhaps even the most important cultural figure of the 20th century, but in 2014 he sounds like hell. And I'll defend anybody's right to enjoy his shows if that's what they like to do. I do plead guilty to often being redundant in my comments. I do that coz i realize it's a very active forum here & not everybody has time to read every one of my posts. I'm flattered that apparently you do.

ALL the Dylan bashing??? You act like I'm Bennyboy, poisoning every thread with my negative remarks. Hell, I rarely ever even post to the "Bob Dylan" section of these forums any more. I purposely stay away from the live set list threads or the threads where folks discuss what shows they're going to or where folks give their reviews of the shows. I believe in letting people have their fun without negative intrusions. I post my opinion in threads that warrant the discussion of opinions. Go to my profile & search my posts & you'll see that what I'm telling you is true. If I'm doing something wrong, it will be addressed by a moderator. Till then you better use the "foe" feature, coz what I'm doing obviously doesn't work for you & I ain't gonna change it.


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PostPosted: Sun September 21st, 2014, 02:28 GMT 
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this thread was much more exciting when he was still in the band


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PostPosted: Sun September 21st, 2014, 02:33 GMT 
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I take full responsibility for the comeback of this thread. Carry on.


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PostPosted: Sun September 21st, 2014, 03:08 GMT 
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P. Pittsburgh Joe wrote:
Sphere wrote:
Duke Robillard has conquered all musical styles? Good one.

Well. You once attempted to discredit my opinion of Dylan by asking me how many shows I've seen, as if it made your opinion more valid than mine just coz you've seen more shows than me. So now I'm asking you. How many of Duke's shows have you been to? How many of Duke's albums do you have? How many albums do you have by Roomful of Blues? The Pleasure Kings? The Fabulous Thunderbirds? Sunny & Her Joy Boys? Had you ever even heard of any of these bands before you read my post? What's fair for one is fair for the other.
Sphere wrote:
And why all the Dylan bashing on your part? You're a broken record. You've made the same points on the subject ad nauseam.

This is called Expecting Rain Discussions. That makes it a discussion forum, not a Praise Everything Dylan Does forum or an Agree With Everything Sphere Says forum. In having discussions, I give my opinion. My opinion is that Dylan is arguably the greatest song writer who ever lived & perhaps even the most important cultural figure of the 20th century, but in 2014 he sounds like hell. And I'll defend anybody's right to enjoy his shows if that's what they like to do. I do plead guilty to often being redundant in my comments. I do that coz i realize it's a very active forum here & not everybody has time to read every one of my posts. I'm flattered that apparently you do.

ALL the Dylan bashing??? You act like I'm Bennyboy, poisoning every thread with my negative remarks. Hell, I rarely ever even post to the "Bob Dylan" section of these forums any more. I purposely stay away from the live set list threads or the threads where folks discuss what shows they're going to or where folks give their reviews of the shows. I believe in letting people have their fun without negative intrusions. I post my opinion in threads that warrant the discussion of opinions. Go to my profile & search my posts & you'll see that what I'm telling you is true. If I'm doing something wrong, it will be addressed by a moderator. Till then you better use the "foe" feature, coz what I'm doing obviously doesn't work for you & I ain't gonna change it.

You have a habit of bashing Bob a lot. You're also speaking to Duke's whole career rather than his stint with Bob which is the subject here. I don't recall anyone slighting his resume. All the comments have been about his time in Bob's band.

I've seen Duke once with Waits and I think twelve times with Bob. And yeah I think you should go to more shows before you whine so much. And maybe don't assume I read all your posts. Big no to that assumption.


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PostPosted: Sun September 21st, 2014, 03:51 GMT 

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Sorry, but I don't know what you call "a lot." I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt & search my posts myself. Previous to today the last time I criticized Bob was August 22, nearly a month ago. Before that, the last time I got into a discussion about Bob, I was defending his recording of "Full Moon and Empty Arms." I got all the way back thru July, found nothing, & stopped searching. Recent history suggests I'm on a pace to bash Bob 8 times this year.

I don't "whine", I comment. You might think I "should" see more shows but, I can't take 2 months off & follow him on tour. I ain't a teenager any more & I ain't no trust fund baby. Gotta work for a living. I'm in charge of my dept. at work & I'm putting a 3rd kid thru college right now. I do hear the tapes & catch some videos, which I assume accurately represent how he sounds live these days. Folks here comment on the tapes & videos all the time, & that's what I do, too.

Truly, I'm not here trying to impair anybody's enjoyment of the shows.


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PostPosted: Sun September 21st, 2014, 05:27 GMT 
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All I'll say is I don't think it's right to be drawing conclusions (of any kind) about all these concerts unless you're out there experiencing it for yourself. Understandably not everyone has the luxury to do that. But being here doesn't count for shit.


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PostPosted: Sun September 21st, 2014, 06:42 GMT 
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Recordings give a decent idea of what shows are like. People can like them or not like them. I like them.


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PostPosted: Sun September 21st, 2014, 07:22 GMT 
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Slobbiness was for sure not the reason. I thinkt this was a classic egos colliding issue. Bob does not take shit from anybody. With Bob changing the band sound to a more lounge style appearence Duke struggled to find his place. Bob has often been hard to read in terms of what wants from his band memebers. I remember Stu and Denny strugling big time with this for years also. If Duke had stopped for money it wouldnt have been mid tour. That completely unprofessional to leave like that unless you have a personal falling out. Judged from his Facebook messages he was a very dissapointed and bitter man. Also judging from his social media activity and seeing a lot of backstage photos from his friends visiting him at shows. This style simply does not work with the Dylan myth.


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PostPosted: Sun September 21st, 2014, 11:34 GMT 
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Bobby_D wrote:
I was in Akron...

I love that recording. One of my faves of the Duke Days. The audience is into it.


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PostPosted: Sun September 21st, 2014, 12:42 GMT 

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Still Go Barefoot wrote:
Bobby_D wrote:
I was in Akron...

I love that recording. One of my faves of the Duke Days. The audience is into it.


My father and I were in the 3rd row and had just finished some California organic after Dawes walked off the stage. I remember loving Duke for a while, then as I sobered up I noticed the awkwardness going on between Duke and the boys. He just never really fit. I don't think the blame should be placed on anyone.


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PostPosted: Sun September 21st, 2014, 12:57 GMT 
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Really? Hmmm... I was excited and impressed regarding the shows I saw with Duke.
Dylan shows hadn't really changed much over the past decade and it was hugely refreshing at the time.


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PostPosted: Sun September 21st, 2014, 13:44 GMT 

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Sphere wrote:
All I'll say is I don't think it's right to be drawing conclusions (of any kind) about all these concerts unless you're out there experiencing it for yourself.

No different than you making fun of my remark about Duke conquering all musical genres without ever having seen Duke perform live with his band or having any of his solo albums or any albums by the bands he's been in. What's fair for one is fair for another.


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PostPosted: Sun September 21st, 2014, 13:50 GMT 
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Bobby_D wrote:

My father and I were in the 3rd row and had just finished some California organic after Dawes walked off the stage. I remember loving Duke for a while, then as I sobered up I noticed the awkwardness going on between Duke and the boys. He just never really fit. I don't think the blame should be placed on anyone.


must've been a good and perspective strain.
i'd sum up the relationship with the sound he brought to Tangled up in Blue.
at first it was a refreshing breath of air because it recalled the sound of the 70s.
then it was a lame drudge of a lick because it recalled the 70s and was used repetitively.
loved it at Kalamazoo, walked out to take a brake for it during Champaign, and deeply left cold every time it comes up again on a recording.

Duke had the goods, but wasn't packed for travelling in the way Bob had in mind.

No sweat Tambo Man, i think it's amusing that the last time Bob was in town I was able to read this thread as it was very active, and it looks like I'll be able to do the same as he begins to get in town this fall!

wait, did you say your father and you were both on organic? that's very wholesome!


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PostPosted: Sun September 21st, 2014, 14:01 GMT 

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A Merry Llama wrote:
Bobby_D wrote:

My father and I were in the 3rd row and had just finished some California organic after Dawes walked off the stage. I remember loving Duke for a while, then as I sobered up I noticed the awkwardness going on between Duke and the boys. He just never really fit. I don't think the blame should be placed on anyone.


must've been a good and perspective strain.
i'd sum up the relationship with the sound he brought to Tangled up in Blue.
at first it was a refreshing breath of air because it recalled the sound of the 70s.
then it was a lame drudge of a lick because it recalled the 70s and was used repetitively.
loved it at Kalamazoo, walked out to take a brake for it during Champaign, and deeply left cold every time it comes up again on a recording.

Duke had the goods, but wasn't packed for travelling in the way Bob had in mind.

No sweat Tambo Man, i think it's amusing that the last time Bob was in town I was able to read this thread as it was very active, and it looks like I'll be able to do the same as he begins to get in town this fall!

wait, did you say your father and you were both on organic? that's very wholesome!


I'm feeling rather wholesome as I type this.


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PostPosted: Sun September 21st, 2014, 14:18 GMT 
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you going to the Chicago shows, Bobby-D, or strictly west coast shows?
i have a feeling we could make that a very wholesome experience.


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PostPosted: Sun September 21st, 2014, 14:21 GMT 

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I'll be in Chicago for the run of shows and into Cleveland. I'm always down to meet up.


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PostPosted: Sun September 21st, 2014, 14:32 GMT 

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I'll say this and leave it be about the Dukester. I hope to eventually find out exactly what happened for him to up and split like that. My opinion is that Dylan didn't care for what Duke brought to the table. We know for a fact Duke expected to be on tour all the way to Europe which would have ended at Royal Albert Hall. Had things been peachy, I believe Duke would still be on the NET. I'd never say Duke is a bad player, obviously he's very talented. It just didn't mesh well enough in my opinion. I feel the current shows are the best I've ever seen especially considering my first Dylan show was in Dayton 2009.

On a different note, I wonder if Larry Campbell has been considered to be brought back? Especially with the sad passing of Levon. Larry knows the material. Bob wouldn't let Stu go at this point though.


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