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PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 05:22 GMT 
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This video shows what Duke "Look, Mommy, my guitar strap has my name on it" Robillard cannot say, even to himself.

rbgeorge wrote:
I'm sure that making the same post in two threads is frowned upon, but I figured people tuning in to this thread might like a little visual of Bob shaming Duke. This comes from Duke's first show, April 5th in Buffalo, during an extended performance of Thunder on the Mountain.

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I have witnessed Bob give a couple of onstage "shamings", including the one in Buffalo this April which was referenced in this or one of the other Duke threads, over which there was some debate as to whether or not it was actually a shaming (I was on the rail for it, watched it closely, and took it to be a shaming). What you describe sounds like it could've happened the night after Buffalo.

AWESOME...in researching my previous comments on this event, I found an excellent video of it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sL6q63j0m1E

Fast forward to about 12:00 or so. Bob gives Duke a ridiculous amount of room to solo and Duke just doesn't go anywhere with it. You can see Bob get a little fed up. At 12:48, Bob drops his hands to his sides in a rather defeated-looking way, looks around for a moment, then moves his harmonica mic and leans up against the piano, listening to Duke. To me, the look on Bob's face at this point said "Oh, really? Really? Jeezus..." He bops his head along for a moment, then at 13:09 Bob drops his head, slams his harmonica mic on the piano, and walks away. After a few words with Donnie, he comes back to the piano to "listen" to Duke some more, only this time his posture is much more mocking, with his hands up on the piano, elbows locked, nodding even more sarcastically, tapping his hand on the piano, scratching his head and looking back toward Donnie as if to say, "Did I leave the stove on?", putting his hand on his hip, and finally re-entering on piano rather loudly.

At the time of the show, several people interpreted this to be Bob earnestly "giving respect" to Duke, leaning back and watching the spectacle. However, Duke was really dogging it during this performance and everything about Bob's facial expression and body language, both in person and in this video, said shaming to me.

Edited to add: His onstage manner during this incident reminds me a great deal of when he couldn't find his harmonica on Letterman.


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PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 05:39 GMT 
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goombay wrote:
everybody else in that band been in there for many many years despite bob being such a bad person. :shock:


Ha is he really such bad person Goomie? I see him as a serious entertainer who likes things to be exactly how he wants it.
That stress of Bob's is responsible for the great and different music we have received over the years.


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PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 06:22 GMT 
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In that video, you can hear it by minute 9 when the duke jumps in and then completely overpowers the keyboards. He doesn't take any cues from dylan to stfu. It sounds like shit, because all you hear is guitar. I mean the band is called 'Bob Dylan', so the rules must be simple: accent whatever dylan is doing and make sure you follow what dylan is doing.
Could be the worst boss ever- who will shame/ fire/ etc... onstage, but all to get that intended sound. Not that that justifies any dehuminization, but the Duke , as a band leader, would produce a whole other sound. Too bad not playing leads to some lead guitarists is like prison, I wonder why. Maybe the duke saw it as a power-trip and rebelled.
I would wanna be donny :D He sits outside the line of vision and gets only smiles.


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PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 06:31 GMT 

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One thing about following Bob: it's never anything but enthralling and captivating.


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PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 06:36 GMT 
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That video is exactly what I'm talking about. How can you decipher anything from this little postage stamp off in the distance? He puts his hand on his hip at one point, that's certainly true. He definitely walks off and talks to someone. Anything else is just projecting.


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PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 06:38 GMT 
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rimbaud wrote:
One thing about following Bob: it's never anything but enthralling and captivating.


even with the same set list :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 06:42 GMT 
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When he scratched his head, was that a HORRIBLE DEHUMANIZING MOCKING SCRATCH or ... just a scratch? And what's the deal with that motorcycle on his shirt? I've thought about it a great deal.


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PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 06:51 GMT 
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Yeah it may be jumping to conclusions. It was hard to see the video any other way after reading someone's analysis of it before I watched.

To me it did seem like Duke was playing a lead solo through the licks/runs Dylan seems to like everyone to play in unison with him.
Duke seemed to be in his own little world. I'm sure if he had watched and followed Bob as closely as we on ER have - he would have been more on his toes - although perhaps Duke never would have taken the job if he had of knew how tight his leash was gonna be.

Just thoughts, just thoughts.


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PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 07:34 GMT 
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Warren Peace wrote:
When he scratched his head, was that a HORRIBLE DEHUMANIZING MOCKING SCRATCH or ... just a scratch? And what's the deal with that motorcycle on his shirt? I've thought about it a great deal.


"Our researchers say that there is a real chance it will achieve self-awareness in the near future." How amazing would that be?!


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PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 07:39 GMT 

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I get the feeling bootlegs of Duke shows from the Spring and any that surface from the start of this leg will go up in stock. Value is based on scarcity and all... I know I certainly have had Sullylove's St. Louis on steady rotation since the news broke. A short but distinctive phase of the NET that deserves to be applauded- I hope further quality captures emerge for posterity.


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PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 07:49 GMT 
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AutodesSchreckens wrote:
goombay wrote:
now the timing of this thing and the fact that charlie was convinientely available,makes is not a musical move, Charlie probably called Bob and asked to come back since he was broke. :shock:
they probably gave Duke a payoff. if Charlie is in the band come next tour then i think this will be confirmed.
:o



Seriously? That would indicate that Charlie has a serious drug and/or gambling problem. You don't quit Bob's band on your own accord after three years and end up with no money left, six months later. If he needed the money, he would have stayed in the first place.


NO NO NO, drugproblems etc. Speculations are really getting out of hand here. Last 6 months people in here have been saying "Charlie really lookeds mad in the fall tour 2102" and had a fall out with Bob. This does not seem to be the case. However Charlie got a new girlfriend in early 2012, which he engaged in november, probably he was having personal problems with being 40 something and just having met his love and being away 300 days a year. COuld be the reason for him calling the quits, and engageing the women in mid november.


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PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 07:50 GMT 
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rbgeorge wrote:
I'm struck with how (directly) involved Duke is on his websites and facebook page. This practically giddy FB post came prior to the "Bob CDs for sale" stunt:

Quote:
Atlanta Tonight! I am patiently waiting for my next JW Murphy guitar which will be a 18" giant deluxe archtop with Claro Walnut sides and back like the early Epiphones and a cedar top, which is mostly used on flattops. This guitar should have a huge, warm sound and it will be beautiful. James guitars are masterpieces of sound and style and I am so anxious to play this one!


I find this not only extraordinarily unusual for one of Bob's band members , but wholly out of sync with the whole "feel" of Bob's crew and show. Duke is just too personable and accessible. I can understand how these characteristics come in handy when pursuing his "own" work (in fostering a relatively small, yet devoted fanbase). But Bob seems to like to surround himself with people who behave like he does: not much talk, just do your thing and move on. He just kinda blows in and out with the wind and expects the people on his payroll to follow suit.

Not to suggest this had anything to do with Duke leaving the band, of course. I just think it fits the larger picture of Duke not being a great fit for Bob.



And this had been foreseen form the get-go in this forum. Duke was just too open for the Dylan-mythology.


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PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 07:55 GMT 
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smoke wrote:
Lily Rose wrote:
Or maybe it is way more drama to do cryptically than it is to say that "our styles did not mesh, it is Bob's show, I left"

or maybe how about "went to the big show.... couldn't hang, went home."

Or maybe, "wasn't my thing, decided to quit"..... without the reference to "respect him as an artist" :roll:

Sometimes the truth is just way too simple.


Many people who have worked with or had other experiences with the great, Buddha-like Bob Dylan have come away saying he's a complete asshole...enough people that we have to assume he's at the very least capable of acting like an asshole, whatever narrative about him being misunderstood we may construct to protect our own image of our hero. Duke was on for a whole tour to almost universal acclaim and was then brought back. If their styles did not mesh or he couldn't "hang" he would have been quietly replaced during the break. There was obviously some incident or action which so upset the avuncular guitar slinger that even the money, perks and prestige of playing with one of the most famous men in the world were not enough for him to stay. He'd rather do club dates than play stadiums with Bob Dylan, and I have to conclude that it took a LOT to make him feel that way (as common sense would dictate). As some wise person said earlier I really can't help but like Bob Dylan, and this won't change that, but I'm not going to twist myself into knots trying to pretend Duke had some musical shortcoming that only presented itself four shows into his second tour.



Lets just agree that Bobs record of being an x is WAY bigger than Dukes.


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PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 07:59 GMT 
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Sad news about Duke ....


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PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 08:05 GMT 
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joshlobley wrote:
Yeah it may be jumping to conclusions. It was hard to see the video
any other way after reading someone's analysis of it before I watched.

To me it did seem like Duke was playing a lead solo through the licks/runs
Dylan seems to like everyone to play in unison with him.
Duke seemed to be in his own little world. I'm sure if he had watched and
followed Bob as closely as we on ER have - he would have been more on
his toes - although perhaps Duke never would have taken the job if he had
of knew how tight his leash was gonna be.

Just thoughts, just thoughts.

.. ya. He was missin' some cues earlier, say - around 8:30 - 9:00 part,
(maybe earlier - i don't know - i skipped ahead to view the part mentioned previously..)
but then he 'got the message' - and when Bob DID give him the green light,
(the aforementioned 12:oo mark app.) - he sort of idled on thru' the intersection,
as if to say - well :roll: there's plenty of ideas hERe about what he was saying -
with what he gave on that cue, but as for 'shaming' - maybe Bob was giving in
to the frustration of having his cues missed, and being cut-off with some extra
lead work as he was going to begin more verses, and didn't bother hiding the fact. .. 8)


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PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 08:15 GMT 
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Grumpy-the-Buick wrote:
joshlobley wrote:
Yeah it may be jumping to conclusions. It was hard to see the video
any other way after reading someone's analysis of it before I watched.

To me it did seem like Duke was playing a lead solo through the licks/runs
Dylan seems to like everyone to play in unison with him.
Duke seemed to be in his own little world. I'm sure if he had watched and
followed Bob as closely as we on ER have - he would have been more on
his toes - although perhaps Duke never would have taken the job if he had
of knew how tight his leash was gonna be.

Just thoughts, just thoughts.

.. ya. He was missin' some cues earlier, say - around 8:30 - 9:00 part,
(maybe earlier - i don't know - i skipped ahead to view the part mentioned previously..)
but then he 'got the message' - and when Bob DID give him the green light,
(the aforementioned 12:oo mark app.) - he sort of idled on thru' the intersection,
as if to say - well :roll: there's plenty of ideas hERe about what he was saying -
with what he gave on that cue, but as for 'shaming' - maybe Bob was giving in
to the frustration of having his cues missed, and being cut-off with some extra
lead work as he was going to begin more verses, and didn't bother hiding the fact. .. 8)



Totally unprofessional of Bob getting pissed by someone missing a few cues during his first couple of concerts if that was the case.
Bob CONSTANTLY misses his cues and and sounds like shit on every single instrument he touches. Cue missing (letting the arrangment stay open) is all part of the game and the code of bluesmusic. It is what makes live performing interesting and the music alive.


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PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 08:25 GMT 

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Lily Rose wrote:
the_revelator wrote:
Assume Bob also has confidentiality agreements with everybody who works for him. "Albeit cryptically" is probably all that Duke can get away with.

Or maybe it is way more drama to do cryptically than it is to say that "our styles did not mesh, it is Bob's show, I left"

or maybe how about "went to the big show.... couldn't hang, went home."

Or maybe, "wasn't my thing, decided to quit"..... without the reference to "respect him as an artist" :roll:

Sometimes the truth is just way too simple.


How about: " I'm not going to let any boss treat me like shit on and off stage!"?


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PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 08:27 GMT 

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Re the video of Bob "shaming" Duke, I saw a near identical episode during the 1st show of the Autumn 11 leg in Dublin during either H61 or Thunder. He was clearly very unimpressed at something, stopped playing altogether, put his hand on his hip and looked to the heavens. The band sensed this and seemed to physically creep forward towards him trying to figure out what was wrong and what to do to correct it. It was fascinating, if uncomfortable, viewing.


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PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 08:40 GMT 
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Blind Boy Zimmerman wrote:
Totally unprofessional of Bob getting pissed by someone missing a few cues
during his first couple of concerts if that was the case.
Bob CONSTANTLY misses his cues and and sounds like shit on every single instrument he touches.
Cue missing (letting the arrangment stay open) is all part of the game and the code of bluesmusic.
It is what makes live performing interesting and the music alive.

.. just to clarify - i'm not excusing Bob's behavior - nor do i think
Bob NEEDS an excuse. As for Duke missing cues and such - yeah,
= it happens. But, as for 'part of the game' and 'code of bluesmusic'
- it's ALSO part of the game to get it together and deliver when
the space is as big and obvious as it was at that 12:00 mark. .. 8)
.. And let's fact it - there's some difference here between
being the established singer/frontman - and being the hired
guitar. And there's an even BIGGER difference between being
Duke Robillard and being Bob Dylan - when it comes to WHO
is going to who's GAME - and WHO is defining the parameters
of the 'code' of the Music being racked up, cued, and played.
.. 8)


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PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 10:02 GMT 
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Grumpy-the-Buick wrote:
.
- it's ALSO part of the game to get it together and deliver when
the space is as big and obvious as it was at that 12:00 mark. ..


Well all this is guessing right. Back when that video first appeared everybody took it as if Bob was standing back being really impressed with Dukes work (you can go back and check this) now people think he is pissed an bad mouthing him.

Duke mentioned in the interview about the new low key band sound where nobody really was soloing. So two nights into his gig as guitarist, Bob was him to do the totalt opposite to what they appearently were told was the new direction!?! In that case it must be really hard/ impossible to please his psycotic boss.

If you go back to Dukes interview snippets on doing the time out of mind record in in "Behind the Shades", we describes how difficult it was to do the work, when you have to mind read what somebody else wants.


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PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 10:20 GMT 
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I just watched the video and I find that solo really boring, just really boring. Sorry, but that's what I think.
:o :o


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PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 10:43 GMT 
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Blind Boy Zimmerman wrote:
Grumpy-the-Buick wrote:
.
- it's ALSO part of the game to get it together and deliver when
the space is as big and obvious as it was at that 12:00 mark. ..


Well all this is guessing right. Back when that video first appeared everybody took it as if Bob was standing back being really impressed with Dukes work (you can go back and check this) now people think he is pissed an bad mouthing him.

Duke mentioned in the interview about the new low key band sound where nobody really was soloing. So two nights into his gig as guitarist, Bob was him to do the totalt opposite to what they appearently were told was the new direction!?! In that case it must be really hard/ impossible to please his psycotic boss.

If you go back to Dukes interview snippets on doing the time out of mind record in in "Behind the Shades", we describes how difficult it was to do the work, when you have to mind read what somebody else wants.

.. There's no doubt about Bob being hard to work with
- and now hard to work for - whether it's changing the
key of the song at the last minute, or .. the list goes on.
The rest of it, i am only going on what i was watching,
and what i was hearing, and the times i've been in
similar situations playing Music. What other people
are guessing might be interesting - but it hasn't
been an influence on the opinions i've expressed.
AND - i'm only addressing the video that was
posted there, i've not seen/heard anything
else, so the overall Duke Robillard Experience
is surely, i would suppose - more accurately
assessed by those who have followed it.
- The video i watched tho' - may have it's
different interpretations if you couldn't hear
it, but seeing AND hearing, it's pretty clear.
Perhaps Bob should not have displayed
his displeasure for all to see, and he's
an old grumpy guy who's gonna have
his say, and his way. But he's earned
his right to want things done his way,
and to INSIST it. Who should blame him? .. 8)


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PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 10:48 GMT 

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Where can find this video you talkin´ about?


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PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 10:54 GMT 
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BostonAreaBobFan wrote:
Lisa -A good boss doesn't embarass you in front of others either.
I can't remember ever hearing Bob described as a good boss. I do think the end of Charlie's first stint the band probably had as much fun together on and off stage as any line-up. There used to be tons of videos from the 2001 - 2002 era of them playing intensely and everyone sharing in the enjoyment and smiles. Often times now you may see a smile on Bob's face but its evident everyone else is busting their butt to make sure the performance is top notch. While those 2001-02 performances remained top-notch, there was a looseness in the band, a relaxed confidence.

Duke's performances have been a breath of fresh air. At times it was like having Knopfler and Koella influencing the songs and of course, Duke's own twist but he helped deliver some memorable (and important) takes on about 20 or so classic Dylan songs. I was hoping for more.

My greatest fear of the moment is that given these recent events, a Never Ending Tour - 2013 Live! is probably being tossed back into the vault or placed in the scrap heap... Maybe, just maybe, the band and the suits at the record company can convince Dylan that a Spring 2013 release would be a great idea and the bonus disc could be a from the upcoming shows with Charlie. That sounds like a scenario in which everyone wins!


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PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 11:14 GMT 
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Burning Spear wrote:
Where can find this video you talkin´ about?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sL6q63j0m1E


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