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PostPosted: Wed July 3rd, 2013, 12:45 GMT 
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rbgeorge wrote:
trevgibb wrote:
Dylan is a classic socio-path, he does not know how to talk to people or how to explain what he wants. he expects people to read his mind and gets frustrated when they can't.


I think you're essentially correct, although I'm not sure if "sociopathy" is the best word for what you're describing. I think it is better understood as mild autism.


Or just an asshole. Historically that's been the case.


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PostPosted: Wed July 3rd, 2013, 12:52 GMT 

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I think you may have missed the point of my post.


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PostPosted: Wed July 3rd, 2013, 12:57 GMT 
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Johanna Parker wrote:
Cipher_Pipe wrote:
Not Mark Knopfler, if we may.


:lol:



Taken from the Knopfler forum "Mark & the band will be back in the US supporting Bob Dylan this fall "


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PostPosted: Wed July 3rd, 2013, 13:16 GMT 
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But isn't he touring Europe in the fall?


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PostPosted: Wed July 3rd, 2013, 13:28 GMT 

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smoke wrote:
But isn't he touring Europe in the fall?


He is and there is no way that he plays more US show these year, esp. arena shows where he'd need a 2nd act like Knopfler.

Either a joke or a post from last year.


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PostPosted: Wed July 3rd, 2013, 13:44 GMT 
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I'm not entirely shocked by this new change. Duke's an established act in his own right. He leads his own band (and fronted others) and he's an older, seasoned musician. He's wasn't gonna let himself be on the end of Bob's dirty looks in front of an audience. Totally understandable if you look at it from his point of view.

Still, I was really looking forward to seeing Duke again at the shows I'll be attending. Bummer....

I think I'll hold a sign up at the Saratoga show that says, DUKE!!!! :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Wed July 3rd, 2013, 14:11 GMT 

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I'm happy My Morning Jacket and Wilco are bringing out guests on this tour, challenging themselves with new songs and arrangements. Dylan, for whatever reason, is not joining the party, having issues with his band, and playing essentially the same set every show.

Obviously he can do whatever he wants but as a huge Dylan fan who has traveled all over the world to see him play, this is just extra-disappointing in a framework where disappointment is part of the drill. I don't think he should to kowtow to his fans, but after branching out so beautifully in the late '90s and early 2000's, he seems to have retreated even more into his own world of stoic recluse. Oh well.


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PostPosted: Wed July 3rd, 2013, 14:14 GMT 

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I think that Bob wanted Duke because of the type of player he is, but given how he has the other guys play, particularly Donnie, I think he was hoping Duke could bounce off that and build on his style. I don't think Bob was expecting stock blues soloing, he was probably expecting something above and beyond that, and essentially from what I've heard Duke was knocking out stock solo licks. That being said, the man is a master guitar player and perhaps he just isn't right for Dylan's kind of mind-trip. Charlie has all of that plus an experimental and more modern guitar approach which i think is why he always worked (IMO). he could do the stock licks, he could add ambience and he could take things higher. That all being said, Bob seems to admire the guys for those very traits and then pulls back hard on the leash. Maybe Bob should concentrate on being a better player himself and learning how to play that damn piano ;-)


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PostPosted: Wed July 3rd, 2013, 14:24 GMT 
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trevgibb wrote:
I think that Bob wanted Duke because of the type of player he is, but given how he has the other guys play, particularly Donnie, I think he was hoping Duke could bounce off that and build on his style. I don't think Bob was expecting stock blues soloing, he was probably expecting something above and beyond that, and essentially from what I've heard Duke was knocking out stock solo licks. That being said, the man is a master guitar player and perhaps he just isn't right for Dylan's kind of mind-trip. Charlie has all of that plus an experimental and more modern guitar approach which i think is why he always worked (IMO). he could do the stock licks, he could add ambience and he could take things higher. That all being said, Bob seems to admire the guys for those very traits and then pulls back hard on the leash. Maybe Bob should concentrate on being a better player himself and learning how to play that damn piano ;-)


I agree. Chalie's been quiet lately though... The whole band really . I miss the extended jams !


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PostPosted: Wed July 3rd, 2013, 14:25 GMT 
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trevgibb wrote:
learning how to play that damn piano ;-)



:lol: :lol:

I keep saying a proper keyboard/piano player would be pretty great for the show, but at that point Bob should pick his guitar up again, or stand center stage on harp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atseImSMIWs


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PostPosted: Wed July 3rd, 2013, 14:31 GMT 
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trevgibb wrote:
I think that Bob wanted Duke because of the type of player he is, but given how he has the other guys play, particularly Donnie, I think he was hoping Duke could bounce off that and build on his style. I don't think Bob was expecting stock blues soloing, he was probably expecting something above and beyond that, and essentially from what I've heard Duke was knocking out stock solo licks. That being said, the man is a master guitar player and perhaps he just isn't right for Dylan's kind of mind-trip. Charlie has all of that plus an experimental and more modern guitar approach which i think is why he always worked (IMO). he could do the stock licks, he could add ambience and he could take things higher. That all being said, Bob seems to admire the guys for those very traits and then pulls back hard on the leash. Maybe Bob should concentrate on being a better player himself and learning how to play that damn piano ;-)


You underestimate Duke Robillard's talent as an "all-round" guitarist. He can play anything if given enough room to do so.


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PostPosted: Wed July 3rd, 2013, 14:33 GMT 

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I'm sure that making the same post in two threads is frowned upon, but I figured people tuning in to this thread might like a little visual of Bob shaming Duke. This comes from Duke's first show, April 5th in Buffalo, during an extended performance of Thunder on the Mountain.

Quote:
I have witnessed Bob give a couple of onstage "shamings", including the one in Buffalo this April which was referenced in this or one of the other Duke threads, over which there was some debate as to whether or not it was actually a shaming (I was on the rail for it, watched it closely, and took it to be a shaming). What you describe sounds like it could've happened the night after Buffalo.

AWESOME...in researching my previous comments on this event, I found an excellent video of it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sL6q63j0m1E

Fast forward to about 12:00 or so. Bob gives Duke a ridiculous amount of room to solo and Duke just doesn't go anywhere with it. You can see Bob get a little fed up. At 12:48, Bob drops his hands to his sides in a rather defeated-looking way, looks around for a moment, then moves his harmonica mic and leans up against the piano, listening to Duke. To me, the look on Bob's face at this point said "Oh, really? Really? Jeezus..." He bops his head along for a moment, then at 13:09 Bob drops his head, slams his harmonica mic on the piano, and walks away. After a few words with Donnie, he comes back to the piano to "listen" to Duke some more, only this time his posture is much more mocking, with his hands up on the piano, elbows locked, nodding even more sarcastically, tapping his hand on the piano, scratching his head and looking back toward Donnie as if to say, "Did I leave the stove on?", putting his hand on his hip, and finally re-entering on piano rather loudly.

At the time of the show, several people interpreted this to be Bob earnestly "giving respect" to Duke, leaning back and watching the spectacle. However, Duke was really dogging it during this performance and everything about Bob's facial expression and body language, both in person and in this video, said shaming to me.

Edited to add: His onstage manner during this incident reminds me a great deal of when he couldn't find his harmonica on Letterman.


Last edited by rbgeorge on Wed July 3rd, 2013, 14:36 GMT, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed July 3rd, 2013, 14:35 GMT 
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Don't worry its just a joke (for now atleast) He is going to the states though :-)


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PostPosted: Wed July 3rd, 2013, 14:39 GMT 

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Dylan is the band leader and has a band sound in mind. The sound Dylan is looking for is one which does not promote the all too typical "B.B. King shit." People who are interested in Allman Brothers blues,or '70s guitar rock have plenty of outlets. There are probably four or five bars in any decent sized town where local bands indulge their forty year old fantasies of recreating the sound of Lou Reed's or David Bowie's awful '70s live albums.
When you see a fan mention Dylan's "three note solos" it's an indication that fan has no feel for what Dylan is doing. He isn't "soloing" he's playing rhythm with single notes rather than strummed chords. He's not looking to step out and play a solo, he's looking to create a groove, and that does not involve any of the players taking a solo.
I can't say what happened with Dylan and Duke. I thought they meshed extremely well in the Spring. The new tour leg hasn't yielded any decent audio, so I've no idea what happened to cause things to fall apart so fast. Dylan had always been a big supporter of Duke, recall that Duke was one of "Dylan's guys" brought in over the objections of Lanois on TOOM. I would have thought based on the Spring leg as well as Duke's age and experience he would have full understanding of his role. The idea a musician would feel restrained in Dylan's band would logically only apply to some young kid with bad taste who was trying to impress a cute girl in the front row. To play in the style Dylan is looking for would be more challenging and present more opportunity for nightly "in the moment" interplay as the musicians have to pay close attention and react to subtle shifts. What would be a lot easier would be to simply go up there and start recycling a bunch of pointless "guitar-god" licks. That would be the easy thing to do, not the interesting or challenging thing to do.


Last edited by patford on Wed July 3rd, 2013, 14:56 GMT, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed July 3rd, 2013, 14:46 GMT 

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Dukes FB update says it all.

He's out.


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PostPosted: Wed July 3rd, 2013, 14:54 GMT 
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Bobby_D wrote:
Dukes FB update says it all.

He's out.

Can you please cut and paste it for the non-FB users? Thanks.


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PostPosted: Wed July 3rd, 2013, 14:55 GMT 

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Bobby_D wrote:
Dukes FB update says it all.

He's out.


You mean this: "How can you NOT love BD? Guess I'll be keeping CDs! LOL"

Earlier he calls it a "gray day" and says "it was interesting alright, but my lips are sealed."


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PostPosted: Wed July 3rd, 2013, 14:58 GMT 
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BostonAreaBobFan wrote:

You underestimate Duke Robillard's talent as an "all-round" guitarist. He can play anything if given enough room to do so.

Well said Beantown.


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PostPosted: Wed July 3rd, 2013, 15:00 GMT 

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patford wrote:
To play in the style Dylan is looking for would be more challenging and present more opportunity for nightly "in the moment" interplay as the musicians have to pay close attention and react to subtle shifts.
yes, and who knows why it didn't work out. i think dylan is the artist that the musicians are up there trying to support, and sometimes it must get very frustrating for dylan to try to communicate what he is going for. maybe he can be intense, but i wouldn't want to get in the way of what he's trying to do.


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PostPosted: Wed July 3rd, 2013, 15:12 GMT 

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Too bad. I was looking forward to seeing him w/ Dylan's band.


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PostPosted: Wed July 3rd, 2013, 15:13 GMT 

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Kind of weird Duke just talks openly to fans on his FB. I know, it's HIS but, you don't see anyone in the Dylan camp reach out like that.

He seems like such a nice guy. I'm gonna miss him even though, Charlie really is a guitar hero of mine.


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PostPosted: Wed July 3rd, 2013, 15:15 GMT 
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rbgeorge wrote:
I'm sure that making the same post in two threads is frowned upon, but I figured people tuning in to this thread might like a little visual of Bob shaming Duke. This comes from Duke's first show, April 5th in Buffalo, during an extended performance of Thunder on the Mountain.

Quote:
I have witnessed Bob give a couple of onstage "shamings", including the one in Buffalo this April which was referenced in this or one of the other Duke threads, over which there was some debate as to whether or not it was actually a shaming (I was on the rail for it, watched it closely, and took it to be a shaming). What you describe sounds like it could've happened the night after Buffalo.

AWESOME...in researching my previous comments on this event, I found an excellent video of it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sL6q63j0m1E

Fast forward to about 12:00 or so. Bob gives Duke a ridiculous amount of room to solo and Duke just doesn't go anywhere with it. You can see Bob get a little fed up. At 12:48, Bob drops his hands to his sides in a rather defeated-looking way, looks around for a moment, then moves his harmonica mic and leans up against the piano, listening to Duke. To me, the look on Bob's face at this point said "Oh, really? Really? Jeezus..." He bops his head along for a moment, then at 13:09 Bob drops his head, slams his harmonica mic on the piano, and walks away. After a few words with Donnie, he comes back to the piano to "listen" to Duke some more, only this time his posture is much more mocking, with his hands up on the piano, elbows locked, nodding even more sarcastically, tapping his hand on the piano, scratching his head and looking back toward Donnie as if to say, "Did I leave the stove on?", putting his hand on his hip, and finally re-entering on piano rather loudly.

At the time of the show, several people interpreted this to be Bob earnestly "giving respect" to Duke, leaning back and watching the spectacle. However, Duke was really dogging it during this performance and everything about Bob's facial expression and body language, both in person and in this video, said shaming to me.

Edited to add: His onstage manner during this incident reminds me a great deal of when he couldn't find his harmonica on Letterman.


Thanks for the link. Now I have a clearer picture that this wasn't just Bob overreacting for this one show. From some of the shows I've heard of the spring tour, Duke had some great moments and I really believed that his style was just what Bob needed. As evidenced in this video, Duke's strange refusal to take the lead during Summer Days at the Atlanta show was something that had happened before. As a matter of fact, if you played the two sections back to back, they would sound identical. The only difference being that Bob seemed to express his frustration during the song in Buffalo -- in Atlanta, he waited until the song was over.

Sure, none of this is new. We've known how mercurial Bob has been with band members both on stage and in the studio for basically his entire career. I guess to see it unfold, at least for me, is quite unsettling. I hate that it happened and I wish Duke the best. I also have even more respect for Tony and all of the other band members through the years. I guess some would say that playing rock and roll for a 100 shows a year is an easy job, but to do it and do it well as a member of Dylan's band must be quite nerve wracking: is he going to solo? does he want me to solo? is this the right key? the right tempo? is he going to wait a few bars before beginning the verse? is he going to leave a verse out?


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PostPosted: Wed July 3rd, 2013, 15:16 GMT 
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He said this too: "Oh it was interesting alright! LOL but don't bother to ask. My lips are sealed."


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PostPosted: Wed July 3rd, 2013, 15:17 GMT 
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BostonAreaBobFan, you know Duke's music pre-Bob much better than I, but from my observation as a non-musician at the Atlanta show, I agree with trevgibb's post above. The licks Duke played just weren't that interesting, weren't very fluid to my ears, and seemed tentative.

Now again, this is me as a non-musician and armchair fan just commentin' of course - it's all better than I can do, and I respect them both, so I'm not criticizing Duke overall. Plus, maybe having Dylan glaring at him affected his playing, who knows. 8) But let's just say I was much more impressed with Charlie Sexton, Freddy Koella, Larry Campbell or Danny Freeman as Dylan's guitarists than I personally was with Duke in this one show on June 29th.

And rbgeorge - I saw all the same body language in the ATL show from Bob, especially after the flub in "Simple Twist Of Fate."

Here's what's interesting though: if you listen to the ATL tape posted the other day by Don'tThinkTwice, I don't even hear the flub in "Simple Twist" that I saw as a fan at the show!! It sounds great when you just listen to the audio! :shock:


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PostPosted: Wed July 3rd, 2013, 15:20 GMT 
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Duke FB posts:

as my college music teacher said to me in class, "Don't worry Robillard, no one's COMPLETELY hopeless" Nice guy eh? Arthur E Chatfield was his name i believe. I quit school the next day..........

(much later, after many replies from fans reading things about his experience with Dylan into this he replied to his own post) Duke Robillard: Oh it was interesting alright! LOL but don't bother to ask. My lips are sealed.

(this morning)
It may be a grey day but my heart, soul and mind are filled with love, hope and most of all intense inspiration. Today is truly.....the first day of the rest of my life. I received a message from God......... Love you all for believing in me, Much Thanks!


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